I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused. - Page 137

sebastian_dangerfield · 11-09-2016, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

You're right. It was supremely selfish for Hillary to put her personal thirst for power and influence peddling ahead of the country in a race she couldn't win.

You can't call people selfish for voting their conscience. And you fail to understand that if people were voting Johnson, it was at least in part because they don't like Hillary. She did not persuade them or win their votes. She received almost 7 million fewer votes than Obama. That's on her, not the Gary Johnson folks.

ETA: I hope that you all are prepared to hear repeated the arrogant words of some jackass: Elections have consequences.

The twisted irony is, I believe the trickle down economics solution to the 2008 recession, a GOP policy followed by Obama, is the root cause of this. You can't provide a recovery to exclusively 5% of the country and expect those left out to remain happy. You also cannot suggest to them that you can make it all okay for them with safety nets that cannot be afforded.

Sadly, what's missed in all of this is, No One Can Bring Back the Jobs. We are beyond silly cures like protectionism. And immigration is not the problem. Those who believe they've just sent the ultimate hand grenade to Washington will soon enough learn there's nothing but a facade left to detonate. Trump blowing up the Establishment does not a jobs recovery make.

I'm seeing a glass half full because I think he'll be good for infrastructure and he'll attempt to cut deals with Democrats (which he was until two years ago). I'm also seeing what might be the mother of all Pyrrhic victories by the "left behind" classes of the country.

sebastian_dangerfield · 11-09-2016, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Oh, fuck off. Find a post where I said lefty policies are unassailable. I'm all too happy to tell you where my fellow travelers have screwed up. (That's what lefties do.) I never said Hillary walked on water.

This was a close election, which is why it was just decided at midnight here on the West Coast. Hillary had momentum when Comey sent that fucking letter to Congress, and it changed things in the race. Would she have won otherwise? Who knows, but it made a difference in a very close election.

I didn't mean you literally. I was speaking more broadly than that. Apologies on any lack of clarity on that. You are one of the most open minded people about this stuff here. And among those I often disagree with, the voice I most respect on issues. I've changed numerous opinions in the past based on insight you've offered. (And that's no easy feat.)

My vote for Johnson just as likely harmed Trump as it might've Hillary. Trump voters gave me shit for it last night. But it's only a lost vote for either candidate to people who argue I had an obligation to vote for one candidate and against another. No one has that obligation, and it's the height of arrogance to suggest otherwise.

Trump fans have asked me how I felt not being part of the wave. No one seems to grasp, people like SEC and I had no choice but Option C.

ThurgreedMarshall · 11-09-2016, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Come on... If he wins PA, it'll be by tens of thousands. I'll have been beyond irrelevant.

Keep telling yourself that. All 140,000 dumbass Gary Johnson voters in PA can tell themselves that bullshit before bed every night for the next 40 years.

"It wasn't just me. There are lots of fucking stooges just like me here in PA. Ah. I feel much better now."

TM

ThurgreedMarshall · 11-09-2016, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Fucking James Comey.

eta: Trump is leading in Pennsylvania by 60,000 votes. 160,000 Pennsylvanians voted for Gary Johnson. So that's a blow for liberty that they struck.

You're looking at this wrong. Now the country has opened its eyes to the magic of libertarian principles!

What a fucking joke.

TM

Adder · 11-09-2016, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Come on... If he wins PA, it'll be by tens of thousands. I'll have been beyond irrelevant.

Right, because you're NEVER part of the problem. You're just a special, principled snowflake.

Adder · 11-09-2016, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Racism, sexism, xenophobia.

Yeah, right now is a great time to pretend we're just making that shit up.

ETA: To expand on that, this is exactly what happened last night. We had a massive electoral exclamation of "I'm not the problem, it's them." It's you in a nutshell.

Quote:

I share your disdain for the unthinking. I probably detest them more than you.

Clearly you do not.

ThurgreedMarshall · 11-09-2016, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

You of the left and right are so sure your policies are so unassailable, so much the best for all, that when you lose, it must be the fault of someone or something beyond your control. Racism, sexism, xenophobia. Anyone opposing you must be demented, because to disagree with your wisdom is madness.

I share your disdain for the unthinking. I probably detest them more than you.

But consider this for a while: It's exactly that attitude that just cost you this election.

There are better ways to use the media to your advantage. This time around, you used them to telecast snobbery too overtly. And a real snob - boorish, but still one - just waltzed in, galvanized the rabble against you, and Cleaned Your Clock.

You are the dumbest person with any brains I have ever met. You just say dumb shit all the time.

If Trump had any fucking policy positions other than destroy immigrants, frisk black people, build wall, cut taxes at the top, cancel trade, charge our allies for protection that you could point to, maybe you would have a point. He doesn't, so you don't. Like your arguments, he is completely fucking devoid of any ideas. You can't say "Get off your high horse when it comes to your ideas because the unthinking, who I disdain more than anybody (and who have voted for someone who has literally no ideas and no plan for anything), don't like them." The fact that you can't see the disconnect in your own post would be shocking, but I've read a lot of your posts. And they're all like this.

TM

Replaced_Texan · 11-09-2016, 11:10 AM

The "Bernie woulda won"s are just a little too much this morning. I don't have the energy and I'm sleep deprived.

Adder · 11-09-2016, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

How much do Democrats suck if they can't even run someone to beat Donald Trump?

As much as the GOP, clearly.

Quote:

And some of them are racist and misogynist, but that she pretty much the same number of people as before.

What planet are you on? We just found out that way more people come out to vote for racism and misogyny than against it. Nothing about that is the same as before.

ThurgreedMarshall · 11-09-2016, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlaveNoMore

[PS -seriously, perhaps get out of this fucking echo chamber and actually meet some of your fellow Americans one of these days]

You're starting to piss me off.

I know tons of fucking Americans. To suggest that I go to areas of this country that support Trump where I am not fucking welcome to get to know those assholes because, as you have implied above, they are real Americans is disgusting.

This narrative that only the left feels superior to those on the right is just complete trash. The right feels just as superior, if not more. They think they have the approval of God. They think they're the only ones who are Patriotic. They think they're the only ones who actually work. They think rural America is the real America.

I don't know what the fact that you buy this shit says about you. But it ain't good.

TM

Adder · 11-09-2016, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

The twisted irony is, I believe the trickle down economics solution to the 2008 recession, a GOP policy followed by Obama, is the root cause of this. You can't provide a recovery to exclusively 5% of the country and expect those left out to remain happy. You also cannot suggest to them that you can make it all okay for them with safety nets that cannot be afforded.

This would be a powerful critique is any of it was true. But you know, facts, man.

That even you believe it says a ton about our problem.

Pretty Little Flower · 11-09-2016, 11:24 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Se9vvLsVUI

ferrets_bueller · 11-09-2016, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

The "Bernie woulda won"s are just a little too much this morning. I don't have the energy and I'm sleep deprived.

Bernie would not have won. Joe Biden would have had a puncher's chance.

SEC_Chick · 11-09-2016, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder

What planet are you on? We just found out that way more people come out to vote for racism and misogyny than against it. Nothing about that is the same as before.

A crap load of those people weren't voting for racism and misogyny. They were voting against Hillary. Check out the polling data for the race among the two most unpopular candidates ever. A majority of people just came down on the other side of the lesser of two evils analysis.

Sebby and I, OTOH, chose not to vote for evil in any form.

SEC_Chick · 11-09-2016, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder

As much as the GOP, clearly.

No argument there. I still don't know where I will end up, but I am clearly no Trumpist Republican.