I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

[SlaveNoMore]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

You don't feel bad. You're just being an asshole.

And that cloying, elitist, arrogant claptrap is why:

THE DEMOCRATS DID NOT REGAIN THE HOUSE

THE DEMOCRATS DID NOT REGAIN THE SENATE

HILLARY CLINTON LOST THE MOST EMBARRASSING DEFEAT IN PRESIDENTIAL POLITICS

But Ty gotta be Ty, Keep going!!!!

My 2 day pop-in is over. See ya'll later.

SlaveNo(CiaoForNow)More

[sebastian_dangerfield]

[QUOTE=SlaveNoMore;503631]Asking if I'd let some slight stand.

Fucks given? See Bluto's GPA as stated by Dean Wormer in Animal House.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

How quickly you pivot from saying that she's for sale to saying that they're all for sale. And when did I deride Bernie as a fool? You just say shit.

You don't feel bad. You're just being an asshole.

Actually, I do. You're unspooled here.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by SlaveNoMore

And that cloying, elitist, arrogant claptrap is why:

THE DEMOCRATS DID NOT REGAIN THE HOUSE

THE DEMOCRATS DID NOT REGAIN THE SENATE

HILLARY CLINTON LOST THE MOST EMBARRASSING DEFEAT IN PRESIDENTIAL POLITICS

But Ty gotta be Ty, Keep going!!!!

My 2 day pop-in is over. See ya'll later.

SlaveNo(CiaoForNow)More

Don't sell your holdings, Slave. Everything's coming up roses. Just don't buy AMZN - they're worried there.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Actually, I do. You're unspooled here.

As Winston Churchill said, in the morning I'll be sober, and you'll still be ugly.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

As Winston Churchill said, in the morning I'll be sober, and you'll still be ugly.

I suspected the last few of your posts were brought to us by the good monks at Chimay. Had a certain looseness to them.

There's not much point beating this dead horse any further. We'll never agree why HRC lost. But for all the same reasons we'd have mocked the Trumpkins for complaining the election was rigged had they lost, we could mock the HRC supporters for spraying blame in all directions but inward.

This thing happened. It isn't going away, and the broader movement behind it is much bigger than a mere election. And that's not going away any time soon.

You, me, almost all of us here... We've enjoyed the benefits of a system that has left a shitload of people in the dust. We thought we could ignore them, or dismiss them with statements like, "well, there are winners and losers in trade..." We thought we could write them off with statements like, "technology ultimately creates more jobs than it eliminates," while coyly ignoring the speed with which it does the latter and the glacial timeline over which it does the former. We've bought into silly Kennedy Era notions like "education will fix it all."

Trump grabbed in excess of 25% of the Latino vote. He stole a huge chunk of the union vote. He won 42% of women.

If you want to look for the true fault lines, and not buy into the "it's mostly racism and sexism" bullshit sold to "the marks" (your term), look at people with assets versus people without. That's where I think the significant split lies. Also look at who's in business for themselves, and who's in small business versus working as a cog in a big business.

The people without assets had nothing to lose voting for Trump. Hillary was bringing more of what Obama and Bush had brought them -- a managed decline, rather than hope of a real job. The people with assets, with capital - people like us - had something to lose. We benefit more from globalism and tech, which delivers to investors at cost to domestic labor. The people who are in business for themselves, who feel acutely and directly the impact of an ever more intrusive state, in the form of licensing strictures and regulation, and compliance bullshit, had much to gain with Trump. The people in jobs at large concerns - the kind of people here - have never felt the direct hand of regulation and compliance concerns on their backs. (They may deal with it, but they don't suffer a hit to the bottom line because of it.)

Who here but Hank actually has to make a payroll every week? I'm not sure any of us are really qualified to explain this phenomenon. But to start flinging blame around without serious looking inward, at your own side's failings - and I mean your side's often limited and tribalist thinking, not the failings of HRC as a candidate - is useless sour grapes. The thing is done. Blame is useless. Try to make the best of it.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by barely_legal

My first (and probably only) post on this board.

This morning my mother, a lifelong Republican, texted me "I feel like somebody just threw up on me and I can't wash it off for 4 years."

I can't express my feelings any better than that.

Yup.

That stench is bad today, but after a few years of not washing....

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by notcasesensitive

I think Florida's numbers compared to other states are a pretty good illustration that there were large generational divides among white women's votes. I haven't seen a full breakdown and frankly I can't devote any more time today to election post-mortem, but based on numbers coming in last night from Florida, the Boomer college-educated women did not come out for Hillary. I don't know for sure why, but I bet at least some of it comes back to the 1990's (and, even if some of you don't believe in it, woman-on-woman sexism, which has always been a thing).

The big blue map that's been making the rounds with totals from younger voters does give me some hope for the future. And right now that's the best thing I can say*, because otherwise I'm pretty despondent.

* Well, also, selfishly I'm saying "Thank God I live in a fiercely blue city in a fiercely blue state." I'm worried about so many people who are not so fortunate.

Yes, somehow we have to try to limit the damage our generation and our parents' generation does and hold the fort for the youngsters. We don't get to leave them a better world, we hope they'll improve ours. As others have said, I so hope the nuclear codes have more than 140 characters.

I'm tired. It's not just the fatigue from my medical stuff, it's also too much time listening to loud obnoxious white guys. God how I hate listening to all the loud obnoxious white guys. I'm so fucking tired.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

the Electoral College makes other people's votes count less and mine count more.

?? Did I miss your move to Wyoming?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Less chance of Neocon interventionism is good.

That you still see that from him is amazing. The man will start a war in the temper tantrum some time in the next four years.

And infrastructure.

If he can get that out of a GOP congress, it would be a silver lining.

I think he can surprise to the upside.

He can, but he can surprise on the downside too.

ETA: What's terrifying is if he actually does what he said he will do. A lot of it I don't think he will actually try to do or be able to get congress to go along with. So, the truly terrifying is hopefully not what's going to happen, but plenty of women and brown people are going to get to enjoy a re-invogorated crudeness at best and potentially much worse.

What's just scary is how much free rein he will give the GOP congress to do all the crap they've said they want to do for six years. For some reason, you Sebby, never seem to mention this.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

We will not significantly decrease use of fossil fuels until we are in dire crisis.

Except we have been significantly decreasing fossil fuels - particularly coal in electricity generation - and the solar and wind technology is very close to winning that competition outright. We should be killing coal, not reviving it.

But again, Hillary'd have done little to nothing about it beyond lip service.

Why do you think she'd part with Obama on this?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Trump made a fool of me.

No he didn't. People who should have voted Dems stayed home. That's the story. That had nothing to do with him. He got fewer votes than Romney (or roughly the same, whatever).

Some of it's on Hillary for seemingly coasting on "Trump is so terrible" after the debates.

Some of it's on voters who failed to appreciate the stakes and/or were overconfident in the outcome (eh-hem).

Some of it's on voter suppression.

Some of it's on the party for nominating a candidate who couldn't inspire anyone.

Some of it's on the media for treating the outrageous things Trump said as normal and pretending that the emails were in some way equivalent.

Some of it's on misogyny.

ETA: The debate for the Dems right now is whether to go with your story: white working class voters need their economic anxiety addressed.

Personally, I think that as long as bigotry appeals to WWC voters, there's nothing the Dems can do appeal to them. We've got to turn everyone else instead.

Technocratic policy proposals are simply not an effective response to "I'll get rid of the illegals who are stealing your jobs" and "I'm going to end trade."

Meanwhile the Bernie-left would like the Dems to be more anti trade. Problem is, they are empirically wrong about trade.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

look at people with assets versus people without.

Sure, as long as you ignore the available data.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

That you still see that from him is amazing. The man will start a war in the temper tantrum some time in the next four years.

Some individual data points:

The first thing my daughter, a budding young engineering student, did after the election was pull her application to the DOD's SMART program.

One of our best friends is trying to qualify their son, at West Point now, for a buyout of their post-graduation service time.

My sister is trying to get her husband to retire from the service (he is a Captain with 20 years in). He's probably going to retire, even though he's on track for Admiral in the next couple of years.

The people I know who worry about war worry about Trump. And many people willing to fight our wars will not want to fight Trump's wars.

But maybe there's a ton of half-wits from Sebby's neck of the wood eager to learn how to program some advanced weaponry in the name of killing people different than them. Or maybe we can get some of the heavily armored police from Ferguson to go someplace where someone will shoot back.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

You said he had the worst night of anyone. He had a better night than just about anyone else who was polling or aggregating polls. Hank says RCP did even better, though.

Ah. My fault. Worst in that he was looked to by so many as someone who could provide accurate predictions. And now he's just like everyone else (even if he outperformed many, he was still way off). And that means way fewer clicks, which is sure to put a huge dent in his business.

TM