Do Lawtalkers Dream of Electric Sheep?

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by dtb
2.

Almost as upsetting is the near-complete absence of outrage (or even mild condemnation) by the male posters. I didn't fully realize that when women are the target, it doesn't matter how offensive the remark, the speaker gets a pass.

I think most (all?) of the other men realized that what he said was ridiculous. It went so far beyond the pale that I can understand some people thinking that it was not even worth acknowledging or responding to. His responses to Sebby were I think more telling. That there could be different male personality types but all women can be treated as one type. Um, ok. Why treat his assinine post as valid enough to prompt a serious discussion on the merits of his commentary? It is preposterous. His wife must be so proud.

All that said, sadly, I don't think that the sentiment behind his post is a total anomoly. There are definitely differences in the ways women and men are perceived in the workplace. The old stereotype that men can be assertive and strong and women who have the same attributes are bitches is unlikely to go away any time soon.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
I think most (all?) of the other men realized that what he said was ridiculous. It went so far beyond the pale that I can understand some people thinking that it was not even worth acknowledging or responding to. His responses to Sebby were I think more telling. That there could be different male personality types but all women can be treated as one type. Um, ok. Why treat his post as valid enough to prompt a serious discussion on the merits of his commentary? It is preposterous. His wife must be so proud.

I don't think anyone's responses to me should be considered. I ask provocative or sometimes just plain stupid questions from odd angles and I think a lot of people assume 90% of everything I write is a joke, so it is entirely probable any response to anything I write is in jest.

[Adder]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Really? This occupied time you devote to thought? What conclusion did you draw from this revelation?

Whether you have used it or heard other women use it isn't really the point. I don't think it can be argued that the term is used overwhelmingly to describe men by men and women. But what's the the conclusion to be drawn from this? I don't know. Is there more significance behind this than the fact that 'bitch' (when used in the same way as asshole) is used to describe women? Is it particularly telling that both men and women have assholes, but the word 'bitch' also means female dog? Again, I don't know. But as far as I'm concerned, the fact that women are rarely referred to as 'assholes' has essentially no significance whatsoever.

TM

You never use bitch as an insult for a guy?

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I don't think anyone's responses to me should be considered. I ask provocative or sometimes just plain stupid questions from odd angles and I think a lot of people assume 90% of everything I write is a joke, so it is entirely probable any response to anything I write is in jest.

That's a spectacular cop-out. And an interesting defense of his remarks.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by dtb
2.

Almost as upsetting is the near-complete absence of outrage (or even mild condemnation) by the male posters. I didn't fully realize that when women are the target, it doesn't matter how offensive the remark, the speaker gets a pass.

1 what ncs said.

2 I remember when T and i used to fight here. I would kick his ass in the arguments, but barely. I remember in the middle of fights other posters would step in and take his side. I always thought that was sort of strange because the people stepping up weren't nearly as good fighters as he is. He didn't need their help.

I have a daughter whom I love very much and am very proud of. I would fight like mad to protect her from sexism in her workplaces. but first I'd want to make sure she needed help. there are at least a half dozen socks who claim to be female here where I would step up and argue with people if the socks needed help. you know you're one of them.

But here's the thing, at the time he was posting, you, RT, B&B and gwnc were all around. the four of you are top 10 in the "being able to fight mean arguments" category. you didn't need help.

The guys who can be mean don't go 4 deep. we might win some individual competitions, but no way we win the team award here.

Plus, i'm wondering if there wasn't something like someone else was posting from his computer.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I don't think anyone's responses to me should be considered. I ask provocative or sometimes just plain stupid questions from odd angles and I think a lot of people assume 90% of everything I write is a joke, so it is entirely probable any response to anything I write is in jest.

Nothing in any of pony's posts of Friday could be taken as jest. I kept waiting for his post hoc attempt at explanation or backpedaling, but it never came. It is rather clear that he does not have the ability to work for female bosses. And that is because women lack the ability to reason and are generally insane bitches. It is less clear whether he is okay with female subordinates. Maybe it is okay for us to strive to be his employees? Or should we stay out of the workforce altogether?

[Adder]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
I think most (all?) of the other men realized that what he said was ridiculous. It went so far beyond the pale that I can understand some people thinking that it was not even worth acknowledging or responding to. His responses to Sebby were I think more telling. That there could be different male personality types but all women can be treated as one type. Um, ok. Why treat his assinine post as valid enough to prompt a serious discussion on the merits of his commentary?

I thought it was too obviously stupid to be worth commenting on.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
1 what ncs said.

2 I remember when T and i used to fight here. I would kick his ass in the arguments, but barely. I remember in the middle of fights other posters would step in and take his side. I always thought that was sort of strange because the people stepping up weren't nearly as good fighters as he is. He didn't need their help.

I have a daughter whom I love very much and am very proud of. I would fight like mad to protect her from sexism in her workplaces. but first I'd want to make sure she needed help. there are at least a half dozen socks who claim to be female here where I would step up and argue with people if the socks needed help. you know you're one of them.

But here's the thing, at the time he was posting, you, RT, B&B and gwnc were all around. the four of you are top 10 in the "being able to fight mean arguments" category. you didn't need help.

The guys who can be mean don't go 4 deep. we might win some individual competitions, but no way we win the team award here.

Plus, i'm wondering if there wasn't something like someone else was posting from his computer.

I was not around. I was only around for the morning. I don't really think the fact that I wasn't around should be used as an excuse for the fact that others who were around did not post much of substance.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Adder
I thought it was too obviously stupid to be worth commenting on.

i'm trying to figure where to go with this. i'm posting now to hold my spot so i'll be the first to respond.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
I was not around. I was only around for the morning. I don't really think the fact that I wasn't around should be used as an excuse for the fact that others who were around did not post much of substance.

fair enough. and rereading ncs' post, please do not imply that i believe the four females i listed are "bitchy". i just meant I try not to get in arguments with them, unless I'm trying to get in shape for some major competition.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
I was not around. I was only around for the morning. I don't really think the fact that I wasn't around should be used as an excuse for the fact that others who were around did not post much of substance.

I wasn't around either. The last day of the month is insane at my office.

That said, I actually didn't take anything he said seriously when I read it. But maybe I am just ridiculously shallow.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
I wasn't around either. The last day of the month is insane at my office.

That said, I actually didn't take anything he said seriously when I read it. But maybe I am just ridiculously shallow.

No, you probably just have thick skin, which is admirable. Sadly, even over-the-top sexism really gets to me no matter how much I try to not let it.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
That's a spectacular cop-out. And an interesting defense of his remarks.

Yes it is a cop-out and a defense, but probably not the one you're thinking.

The fact is, the guy's a funny poster and I like the fact that he posts off the cuff and often says some really direct shit that makes me laugh.

This instance wasn't funny, but I think a person is a hell of a lot more than any one lapse or bad joke and I don't think I'm obligated to jump on the bandwagon and start bashing someone where his own comment stands as the best indictment of what he's improperly said.

And what really confounds me is that in an industry where 99.99999999% of the problems and annoyances accrue from eggshell egos of insecure males the best anyone had in response to his ham-fisted comment was outrage. He opened a fucking barn door for every woman on this board to fire off a shitload of irrefutable jokes and observations totally decimating the substance of the offensive comment made.

[dtb]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
1 what ncs said.

2 I remember when T and i used to fight here. I would kick his ass in the arguments, but barely. I remember in the middle of fights other posters would step in and take his side. I always thought that was sort of strange because the people stepping up weren't nearly as good fighters as he is. He didn't need their help.

I have a daughter whom I love very much and am very proud of. I would fight like mad to protect her from sexism in her workplaces. but first I'd want to make sure she needed help. there are at least a half dozen socks who claim to be female here where I would step up and argue with people if the socks needed help. you know you're one of them.

But here's the thing, at the time he was posting, you, RT, B&B and gwnc were all around. the four of you are top 10 in the "being able to fight mean arguments" category. you didn't need help.

The guys who can be mean don't go 4 deep. we might win some individual competitions, but no way we win the team award here.

Plus, i'm wondering if there wasn't something like someone else was posting from his computer.

I'm not suggesting that any of us needs "help" from a "help me! I can't fight this [feeling any longer... oh, wait...]; protect me!!" but was disappointed that only the women were expressing outrage that pony could be so openly sexist and offensive without anyone calling him on it.

If someone made an equally offensive racist remark, would you expect only the [black/asian/hispanic/whatever] posters to challenge him on it? It's everybody's fight, not just the women's. At least, it should be. That it isn't is what I find so disheartening.

Couldn't one of you have chimed in with a "Dude, that's really uncool."?

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Yes it is a cop-out and a defense, but probably not the one you're thinking.

The fact is, the guy's a funny poster and I like the fact that he posts off the cuff and often says some really direct shit that makes me laugh.

This instance wasn't funny, but I think a person is a hell of a lot more than any one lapse or bad joke and I don't think I'm obligated to jump on the bandwagon and start bashing someone where his own comment stands as the best indictment of what he's improperly said.

And what really confounds me is that in an industry where 99.99999999% of the problems and annoyances accrue from eggshell egos of insecure males the best anyone had in response to his ham-fisted comment was outrage. He opened a fucking barn door for every woman on this board to fire off a shitload of irrefutable jokes and observations totally decimating the substance of the offensive comment made.

I take your point, sebby, but jesus christ, now we're not supposed to be outraged? Sometimes when you are actually outraged, it's hard to be clever and creative.