"I'm GGG and I approve this message."

[andViolins]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Not under any meaning of "anti-Israel" that ordinary people speaking English would use. This is a smear by people with a particular view of what sort of policy best serves Israel to use on people with whom they disagree, and they use this smear instead of just talking about policy because they know that the vast majority of people -- and the vast majority of U.S. Jews -- disagree with them on the policy.

I'm not sure I understand this. I know that Zbigniew Bzrezinski signed onto the October 2007 letter stating that Hamas needed to be included in the negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians. While a recent survey of Israelis shows that a majority believe that Israel should negotiate a cease-fire with Hamas, I am not aware of a similar belief amongst U.S. Jews. In regard to Israel, I do not believe that a vast majority of U.S. Jews would agree with Obama's advisors.

aV

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Two thoughts:

You have a very bad habit of labelling everything as a "smear" any time some factually inconvenient point is raised about one of your guys.

So "anti-Israel" isn't a smear? If that isn't, what is?

I agree that Russert wasn't trying to "smear" Obama. He was engaged in gotcha journalism, with the same effect, which is not the role of debate moderator.

Spurious?

One of the most loathsome public figures publicly supported Obama, so he was properly questioned on it (and he thoroughly answered it - so it should not be properly put to rest).

After reading this, I'm now more OK with the original question. It's something that has come up, and it's a forum where Obama can address it. But once he answered Russert's initial question, the follow-up with the litany of crap about Farrakhan and the trip to Libya is completely inappropriate. Obama just said he denounced Farrakhan and did nothing to seek his support. Russert's long, non-sensical question is an implicit rebuttal of what Obama said.

I sure as hell didnt see you crying about "smears" every time on these morons from CNN or MSNBC posed obnoxious, leading questions to the GOP candidates.

I didn't watch any of those debates, so I can't do that, but in general I haven't heard heaps of praise for debate moderators. The thing from Digby that I posted earlier doubtless applies equally to the GOP's moderators as well.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by andViolins
I'm not sure I understand this. I know that Zbigniew Bzrezinski signed onto the October 2007 letter stating that Hamas needed to be included in the negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians. While a recent survey of Israelis shows that a majority believe that Israel should negotiate a cease-fire with Hamas, I am not aware of a similar belief amongst U.S. Jews. In regard to Israel, I do not believe that a vast majority of U.S. Jews would agree with Obama's advisors.

What don't you understand? Why Slave thinks that views in accord with the majority of Israelis make one "anti-Israel"? I concur.

If you think most American Jews would disagree with Obama's advisors, I would be curious to know about what, because their views are not particularly outre.

Here's Max Boot -- Slave's kind of guy, I think -- defending Samantha Power (in Commentary!):

• I’ve known Power for six years and have never heard her say anything that I would construe as anti-Israel. In fact, at a December 2006 forum at Harvard’s Kennedy School at which we were both panelists, she rather forcefully dismissed a claim by a Jewish anti-Zionist in the audience who tried to equate Israeli policy with South African apartheid—a favorite trope of the hard left.

Of course the genius of the "anti-Israel" smear is that it's a lot harder to try to defend yourself from that sort of crap than it is to make the cheap accusation.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

This has gotta kill Slave:

[Adder]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Not when in the context that three of his handpicked top policy advisers are virulently anti-Israel (see Ziggy, Power, Malley)

I don't know much about these people. Can you explain why you think they are anti-Irael? Honest question.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Bunk. If the KKK came out and openly endorsed any white candidate, they would certainly have to answer for it.

BTW, I'm reminded of the time that Russert asked Obama about Harry Belafonte's remarks about President Bush. There's something that Belafonte and Farrakhan share, but I can't quite put my finger on it. But I'm sure he asks Democrats and Republicans alike about Belafonte and Farrakhan.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
There's something that Belafonte and Farrakhan share, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

When a reporter informed Boston Mayor James Michael Curley that a Republican Governor had appointed Endicott Peabody Saltonstall to be the district attorney, he replied "God God! All three of them?"

We Irish used to get asked every so often about Gerry Adams, back when Martin McGuinness was still shooting people. And I suspect that McCain will get asked about statements made by Andy Rooney, Abe Vigoda, and Jack Welch. Barry can handle it.

[SlaveNoMore]

y Tyrone Slothrop
BTW, I'm reminded of the time that Russert asked Obama about Harry Belafonte's remarks about President Bush. There's something that Belafonte and Farrakhan share, but I can't quite put my finger on it. But I'm sure he asks Democrats and Republicans alike about Belafonte and Farrakhan.

You got me on that one.

I'm hardly a fan of Russert - for all I know, he could be a member of John Birch.

[SlaveNoMore]

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
This has gotta kill Slave:

First Buckley, now this.

Want to run over my dog, too?

[andViolins]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop

If you think most American Jews would disagree with Obama's advisors, I would be curious to know about what, because their views are not particularly outre.

Most American Jews do disagree with Obama's advisors in regard to Israel and the Palestinians. I'm not quite sure why you believe differently. Which one(s) do you believe that a majority of American Jews would/do agree with on that issue?

aV

[SlaveNoMore]

Adder
I don't know much about these people. Can you explain why you think they are anti-Irael? Honest question.

My home computer is fried, so I'll respond to your question tomorrow.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by andViolins
Most American Jews do disagree with Obama's advisors in regard to Israel and the Palestinians.

No they don't.

This is fun.

eta: I'm finding lots of stuff through Google, but it's hard to sort through it for good sources. Suffice it to say that this guy's views generally echo what I hear from a friend whose wife works for the AJC.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
No they don't.

This is fun.

eta: I'm finding lots of stuff through Google, but it's hard to sort through it for good sources. Suffice it to say that this guy's views generally echo what I hear from a friend whose wife works for the AJC.

my MIL told me (in 96) she was voting for Clinton, because, "all the big wig Jews in NY are voting for him."

If you want I'll check on who the big wigs are voting for this year.

[bling trade]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Does anyone have any inside information on whether the bill currently pending to allow Bkcy judges to force mortgage lenders to take discounts actually has a snowball's chance in hell of going through?

No. But I'd be willing to bet money that it will pass. It is one of the few ways I can think of to help homeowners without helping lenders, which is a democrat priority.

[bling trade]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Not when in the context that three of [obama's] handpicked top policy advisers are virulently anti-Israel (see Ziggy, Power, Malley)

If anti-Isreal means no support for Israel, but granting US citizenship for all Israeli jews, that would help the US economy, so I'd support that.