Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

And you can blame fuel and options on management, but the quality was a result of worker apathy. I was there so I know what I'm talking about,

This is actually the dumbest thing you've ever said. Not so much the first sentence. That sentence is extraordinarily dumb, even for you -- you cannot blame line workers for the fact that American car companies in the 70s were designing and producing behemoth gas guzzlers. Unless you think that a lazy union worker added 2000 pounds to the car and made it 4 feet longer and 2 feet wider than it was supposed to be.

But the second part? Jesus fuck, you think being a 20 year old, or whatever you were, living in Detroit gives you special ability to make pronouncements about an entire industry?

You are hopeless. Feel free to respond however you want, I'll ignore it. If I'm going to pay attention to stupid people on the Internet, they need to have nice tits.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

This is actually the dumbest thing you've ever said. Not so much the first sentence. That sentence is extraordinarily dumb, even for you -- you cannot blame line workers for the fact that American car companies in the 70s were designing and producing behemoth gas guzzlers.

I blamed management for that. I simply said the workers made the big gas guzzlers break down because they didn't care. You really can't read can you?

But the second part? Jesus fuck, you think being a 20 year old, or whatever you were, living in Detroit gives you special ability to make pronouncements about an entire industry?

Translation: yes I do believe the entire UAW was full of honest good folk, who worked hard each day, and were robbed of their birthright by the evil management.

Are you on pain meds for something short term, or you're just crazy in a retard kind of way, huh??

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

This is actually the dumbest thing you've ever said. Not so much the first sentence. That sentence is extraordinarily dumb, even for you -- you cannot blame line workers for the fact that American car companies in the 70s were designing and producing behemoth gas guzzlers. Unless you think that a lazy union worker added 2000 pounds to the car and made it 4 feet longer and 2 feet wider than it was supposed to be.

But the second part? Jesus fuck, you think being a 20 year old, or whatever you were, living in Detroit gives you special ability to make pronouncements about an entire industry?

You are hopeless. Feel free to respond however you want, I'll ignore it. If I'm going to pay attention to stupid people on the Internet, they need to have nice tits.

The decline of the Big 3 isn't a simple of case of either/or between labor and management. It's more complicated than that - there are bookshelves full of the works of smart people trying to figure out why. David Halberstam's "The Reckoning" is a good start. I also like "On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors."

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

The decline of the Big 3 isn't a simple of case of either/or between labor and management. It's more complicated than that - there are bookshelves full of the works of smart people trying to figure out why. David Halberstam's "The Reckoning" is a good start. I also like "On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors."

So, say if you could talk to a mammal that was around when the dinosaurs died out about what happened, you'd rather look at studies written by scientists millions of years later who studied fossils?

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

So, say if you could talk to a mammal that was around when the dinosaurs died out about what happened, you'd rather look at studies written by scientists millions of years later who studied fossils?

Hank, mi amigo, the shrew could only provide me with anecdotal evidence. Plus, (1) On a Clear Day was basically written by John DeLorean (an automotive executive T-Rex if there ever was one) and (B) neither of the books I mentioned were written "millions of years later" or the equivalent. The Reckoning was based on contemporary reporting that probably overlapped with your stint on the assembly line. Maybe Halberstam interviewed you.

And I think one or both of them mentioned the whole "don't buy a car assembled after a big sporting event or a 3 day weekend" quality issues caused by hungover, apathetic UAW fossils.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

Hank, mi amigo, the shrew could only provide me with anecdotal evidence. Plus, (1) On a Clear Day was basically written by John DeLorean (an automotive executive T-Rex if there ever was one) and (B) neither of the books I mentioned were written "millions of years later" or the equivalent. The Reckoning was based on contemporary reporting that probably overlapped with your stint on the assembly line. Maybe Halberstam interviewed you.

And I think one or both of them mentioned the whole "don't buy a car assembled after a big sporting event or a 3 day weekend" quality issues caused by hungover, apathetic UAW fossils.

John DeLorean? Do you realize his history with GM? Taking his opinion would be like accepting notme's take on the history of the PB.

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

John DeLorean? Do you realize his history with GM? Taking his opinion would be like accepting notme's take on the history of the PB.

Saying that Johnny D's had a bias is a different argument than the one you made. And his time running Pontiac (as opposed to running Chevy, which is probably what you're talking about) was pretty impressive - the GTO was his baby.

Plus the dude was behind the creation of a time machine, man (a stainless steel sports car? Made in Northern Ireland before the Good Friday accords? Incredibly expensive? Fuck yeah! Cocaine is a helluva drug).

[Not Bob]

[scene: a man in a car, alone, driving in the middle of nowhere, smoking, listening to the radio]

Announcer: Thank you all for tuning in this evening to "Car Talk" with Hank Chinaski and Not Bob.

Not Bob: Hank, our next caller has a question about whether the undercoating scams run by Big 3 new car dealers in the 1970s had anything to do with the rise of Honda, and ultimately the nail salon wage theft scandals exposed recently by the NYT. Can we really blame it all on Rusty Jones?

Hank: You know, Not Bob, Mr. Ford didn't believe in unions, but he did believe in paying his workers enough so that they could afford to buy the cars they made ....

[click]

[static]

"I want to sleep with common people! I want to sleep with common people like you!"

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

Hank, mi amigo, the shrew could only provide me with anecdotal evidence. Plus, (1) On a Clear Day was basically written by John DeLorean (an automotive executive T-Rex if there ever was one) and (B) neither of the books I mentioned were written "millions of years later" or the equivalent. The Reckoning was based on contemporary reporting that probably overlapped with your stint on the assembly line. Maybe Halberstam interviewed you.

And I think one or both of them mentioned the whole "don't buy a car assembled after a big sporting event or a 3 day weekend" quality issues caused by hungover, apathetic UAW fossils.

Obviously, we all need to establish our bona fides before commenting further. I may have been more of a hayseed than a grease monkey, but I was arrested and charged with "obstructing employment" at an auto parts plant in Westfield, MA in the the early 80s. I admitted the facts and was fined $25, which was paid by the UAW. My uncle sold John Deere's his whole life near Lima, NY, so we did have a grease monkey in the family. And I know that positraction wasn't available on the '64 Buick skylark.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I blamed management for that. I simply said the workers made the big gas guzzlers break down because they didn't care.

See, Hank, you could have done something about this. Back when you were 20, you could have gone into the two mile long assembly line and, with great spirit and enthusiasm, welded that gas tank assembly for twelve hours a day like there was no tomorrow! You should have done it for America.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Uppity white people.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Translation: yes I do believe the entire UAW was full of honest good folk, who worked hard each day, and were robbed of their birthright by the evil management.

You know there might be room between what he said and your "translation," right?

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

And you can blame fuel and options on management, but the quality was a result of worker apathy. I was there so I know what I'm talking about, but you carry on seeing the entire UAW work force as 100% loyal salt-of-the-Earth workers sitting around at lunch wishing that management would finally make the cars folks want!

Whoa. Someone needs to brush up on their early Michael Keaton.



TM

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Obviously, we all need to establish our bona fides before commenting further. I may have been more of a hayseed than a grease monkey, but I was arrested and charged with "obstructing employment" at an auto parts plant in Westfield, MA in the the early 80s. I admitted the facts and was fined $25, which was paid by the UAW. My uncle sold John Deere's his whole life near Lima, NY, so we did have a grease monkey in the family. And I know that positraction wasn't available on the '64 Buick skylark.

Did you have to go sit on the bench and fill out the forms with the mother rapers and the father stabbers, and the mother stabbers and the father rapers and did they all move to the other side of the bench after they said "Kid, what are you in for?" and you said "obstructing employment?"

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]