I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

I fixed it for you. As the Attorney General said, we may never know what motivated the ISIS-loving Orlando shooter to kill all those gay people in the name of ISIS and it's leader.

The killer also claimed to love al Qaeda and Hezbollah. At the same time.

He was also, apparently, a closeted gay man, married to a woman, born to parents who were Afghan and, I guess, Muslim (I say "I guess" because I have to wonder if they were at all devout, given his inability to figure out if he preferred the Shiite-killing Sunnis or their opposites).

If you've reached clear conclusion of the extent to which this fucked-up individual was motivated by general hatred of gay people, his own self-hatred for being gay, the dogma of ISIS, and other factors, congrats.

[SEC_Chick]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

The killer also claimed to love al Qaeda and Hezbollah. At the same time.

He was also, apparently, a closeted gay man, married to a woman, born to parents who were Afghan and, I guess, Muslim (I say "I guess" because I have to wonder if they were at all devout, given his inability to figure out if he preferred the Shiite-killing Sunnis or their opposites).

If you've reached clear conclusion of the extent to which this fucked-up individual was motivated by general hatred of gay people, his own self-hatred for being gay, the dogma of ISIS, and other factors, congrats.

I have a feeling that if the terrorist were a Trump supporter who called 911 to declare his allegiance to the Tea Party and said he was committing these acts in the name of Jesus, it would not have been omitted from the transcript, and the AG's placement of blame would be somewhat more direct than the answer to how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

I have a feeling that if the terrorist were a Trump supporter who called 911 to declare his allegiance to the Tea Party and said he was committing these acts in the name of Jesus, it would not have been omitted from the transcript, and the AG's placement of blame would be somewhat more direct than the answer to how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop.

I'm sure the only reason the AG made the statement that you refer to is because she secretly (or, in your view, not secretly) supports ISIS and wants to see the US fall under the Caliphate.



But what does it mean to be "a Trump supporter"? This guy was "an ISIS supporter", but also an al Qaeda supporter and a Hezbollah supporter. Which indicates he really wasn't any of those, but rather someone who hated gay people and read a lot of anti-US and anti-gay screed on the Internet. It is highly unlikely that he ever did anything to "support" any of those organizations, and I would doubt that he ever spoke to anyone who was in any way connected to any of those organizations. And he was "an ISIS supporter" who attended gay nightclubs and used gay dating apps, like Grindr. Compare that to your "hypothetical" above and tell me if yours shows as many, or any, serious contradictions in the individual's professed "support".

Do you see that there is genuine reason to question what was really motivating this individual? It seems like the GOP has its own version of political correctness, that requires that you must see this as "ISIS terrorism," period.

I am assuming you can have a rational discussion about this. If not, let me know.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

I'm sure the only reason the AG made the statement that you refer to is because she secretly (or, in your view, not secretly) supports ISIS and wants to see the US fall under the Caliphate.



But what does it mean to be "a Trump supporter"? This guy was "an ISIS supporter", but also an al Qaeda supporter and a Hezbollah supporter. Which indicates he really wasn't any of those, but rather someone who hated gay people and read a lot of anti-US and anti-gay screed on the Internet. It is highly unlikely that he ever did anything to "support" any of those organizations, and I would doubt that he ever spoke to anyone who was in any way connected to any of those organizations. And he was "an ISIS supporter" who attended gay nightclubs and used gay dating apps, like Grindr. Compare that to your "hypothetical" above and tell me if yours shows as many, or any, serious contradictions in the individual's professed "support".

Do you see that there is genuine reason to question what was really motivating this individual? It seems like the GOP has its own version of political correctness, that requires that you must see this as "ISIS terrorism," period.

I am assuming you can have a rational discussion about this. If not, let me know.

All that, but it was still weird to release the redacted transcript, especially as we knew what was redacted.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Adder

All that, but it was still weird to release the redacted transcript, especially as we knew what was redacted.

Weird, and also stupid. But not really what I was trying to address. I just don't see the motivations in Orlando as being so clear, when compared to (say) Fort Hood, or even San Bernadino.

Fortunately, we have lots of mass shootings here so there are ample points of comparison.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

Weird, and also stupid. But not really what I was trying to address. I just don't see the motivations in Orlando as being so clear, when compared to (say) Fort Hood, or even San Bernadino.

Fortunately, we have lots of mass shootings here so there are ample points of comparison.

I was thinking how each mass shooting there are groups of people waiting to hear the shooter's name, hoping it will support their narrative- one group hoping for a crazy American born- the other hoping for a Muslim. And as you say we get enough that both groups get their theory reinforced often enough. But this one is a beaut, cuz everyone got what they were hoping for! But yeah, this one seems more self-hate. Fueled by standard Islam hate for gays, or Isis driven? Who knows.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I was thinking how each mass shooting there are groups of people waiting to hear the shooter's name, hoping it will support their narrative- one group hoping for a crazy American born- the other hoping for a Muslim. And as you say we get enough that both groups get their theory reinforced often enough. But this one is a beaut, cuz everyone got what they were hoping for! But yeah, this one seems more self-hate. Fueled by standard Islam hate for gays, or Isis driven? Who knows.

It's true. It seems there is just one thing that all these mass killings have in common.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

It's true. It seems there is just one thing that all these mass killings have in common.

Two: men and guns.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

The killer also claimed to love al Qaeda and Hezbollah. At the same time.

He was also, apparently, a closeted gay man, married to a woman, born to parents who were Afghan and, I guess, Muslim (I say "I guess" because I have to wonder if they were at all devout, given his inability to figure out if he preferred the Shiite-killing Sunnis or their opposites).

If you've reached clear conclusion of the extent to which this fucked-up individual was motivated by general hatred of gay people, his own self-hatred for being gay, the dogma of ISIS, and other factors, congrats.

It was Clinton's fault.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

If you really want to assert violations of a some rule to initiate ethics, civil, or criminal charges against a politician, all you need to to do is find a basis to engage in a cursory investigation of their activities.

The hard part (and it isn't really that hard) is finding the basis to look. Once you have that, given the 393,587,962 mindless laws and regs that can be applied, it's impossible not to find some sanctionable activity.

Intent? Who needs that? We live in a strict liability society, don't you know? (And this applies to the common citizen just as much, perhaps more. We're all in violation of something, and only free of harassment or punishment to the extent the we don't become targets of the system, as has Hillary.)

Not just politicians.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Wow, Britain.

A colossal fuck-up by David Cameron, so good-bye to him.

Bad news for the US as well.

Another example of the failure of consensus politics to deliver for most people, not least consensus macroeconomics, which the Europeans have been using to mishandle things for the last decade. Eventually those chickens come home to roost.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Wow, Britain.

A colossal fuck-up by David Cameron, so good-bye to him.

Bad news for the US as well.

Another example of the failure of consensus politics to deliver for most people, not least consensus macroeconomics, which the Europeans have been using to mishandle things for the last decade. Eventually those chickens come home to roost.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Another example of the failure of consensus politics to deliver for most people, not least consensus macroeconomics, which the Europeans have been using to mishandle things for the last decade.

I'm torn on how much of this to put on macroeconomic failure (the ECB sux, but is only indirectly relevant to the UK), and how much to put on good old fashioned racism and xenophobia.

Of course, the two are somewhat related, but the former seems to get used to excuse/explain the latter in a way that I think misses some of the point.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

All bets on Iceland now?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

I'm torn on how much of this to put on macroeconomic failure (the ECB sux, but is only indirectly relevant to the UK), and how much to put on good old fashioned racism and xenophobia.

Of course, the two are somewhat related, but the former seems to get used to excuse/explain the latter in a way that I think misses some of the point.

Whenever you fear the immigrants are going to ruin the economy, it makes sense to just do it first so they can't.