Objectively intelligent.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

Professor Somin has my proxy - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-organ-donors/

The plot of Never Let Me Go makes for a better solution.

[LessinSF]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Whether he is or he isn't, of all the hobbies one might have, staging bum fights? Does anyone really, urgently need to be doing that?

They need the money more than UFC fighters.

[LessinSF]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

The plot of Never Let Me Go makes for a better solution.

Because you possess the only degree in science here, I assume you know, for example, that liver donation only requires a part of the donor's liver, and the donor and the recipient should both regrow complete livers. And that healthy people do not need both kidneys.

The dean of the law school at UCLA (and a high school friend of mine) just donated a kidney to her father. No secret. And Professor Volokh also has my proxy. https://reason.com/volokh/2020/12/15/kidney-donations/

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Isn't the problem here is the same one with slavery, about entering into contracts you can't get out of? One can't have total autonomy if one can agree to give up one's autonomy, is the argument.

You'd have total autonomy until the moment you were sedated. I think the riskier side of these contracts lies with the purchaser. If the seller gets cold feet at the last second and you're going to die without a kidney, you've lost precious time in which you could have been securing a kidney from another source.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

Because you possess the only degree in science here, I assume you know, for example, that liver donation only requires a part of the donor's liver, and the donor and the recipient should both regrow complete livers. And that healthy people do not need both kidneys.

The dean of the law school at UCLA (and a high school friend of mine) just donated a kidney to her father. No secret. And Professor Volokh also has my proxy. https://reason.com/volokh/2020/12/15/kidney-donations/

In the abstract, the sale of corners of livers should be legal. As should sale of kidneys. But that wasn't my point. My point was the guy who thought this was an important market that needed to be protected was off his rocker.

I'm sure people buy and sell organs here all the time. The transaction probably takes place in cash, and no one's the wiser. And I doubt the government really cares, as it's such a niche. No FBI agent is going to bust a guy for selling a corner of his liver over state lines.

I also, however, shudder at what would occur if this market became a way for the well off to almost literally prey on the poor. Our economy is seriously unequal right now, and the poor are already debt serfs whose limited dollars are harvested by rentiers, predatory financiers, and our state and federal criminal fine and penalty enforcement regimes. In this kind of economy, the poor would become a used parts store for the rich. So while in a more fair economy, a market for organs could and arguably should exist, in the economy we have, where much of the country is desperate, that market would resemble something out of Black Mirror.

This is why one cannot be a full libertarian. Like all ideologies, it has to be tempered with some form of guardrails... there must be arguments of degree.

ETA: And that's what made the book I cited, via reviews, sound so funny. Libertarians are funny. They take these mad black and white positions and run them to absurd ends. I obviously sound quite sympathetic to libertarianism, but I think that's by accident. I don't like absolutes. I'm fine with well reasoned guardrails. Personally, I think the guardrails should be as few as possible. But I think the level of regulation or legislation to be applied is subjective, and should be examined on a case by case basis. Free speech? I'm near absolutist. Organ sales? I'm in favor of some significant guardrails.

If I listen to Ayn Rand now, in middle age, she sounds like a bad comedy. The worst spokesperson imaginable for the proposition of enhanced freedoms. The better spokespeople for libertarianism than libertarians would be libertines (there is a difference). Libertines don't want to eliminate all laws. They want to eliminate most of those that apply to consensual behaviors among adults, and they want to relax application of those that are retained. Randians sound like strange birds the company of whom would not be much fun. Libertines? They just want to behave in a hedonistic fashion and keep more of their money (because they'd prefer not to have to work as much, so they could devote more time and resources to having a good time). Everybody can understand and appreciate that message.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

You'd have total autonomy until the moment you were sedated. I think the riskier side of these contracts lies with the purchaser. If the seller gets cold feet at the last second and you're going to die without a kidney, you've lost precious time in which you could have been securing a kidney from another source.

I've been in the early stages of the egg donation game, and definitely this is the case there. It's a weird, weird world to be in.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

You'd have total autonomy until the moment you were sedated. I think the riskier side of these contracts lies with the purchaser. If the seller gets cold feet at the last second and you're going to die without a kidney, you've lost precious time in which you could have been securing a kidney from another source.

I don't have a strong view about it, tbh.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

you'd have total autonomy until the moment you were sedated. I think the riskier side of these contracts lies with the purchaser. If the seller gets cold feet at the last second and you're going to die without a kidney, you've lost precious time in which you could have been securing a kidney from another source.

t.r.o.?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

Because you possess the only degree in science here, I assume you know, for example, that liver donation only requires a part of the donor's liver, and the donor and the recipient should both regrow complete livers. And that healthy people do not need both kidneys.

The dean of the law school at UCLA (and a high school friend of mine) just donated a kidney to her father. No secret. And Professor Volokh also has my proxy. https://reason.com/volokh/2020/12/15/kidney-donations/

My degree is in Christian Science{sad face}

[Replaced_Texan]

Happy Holidays, ya'll.

Crazy year for everyone, and I'm real glad to have you people to share it with.

Take care of yourselves, and hold out just a little longer for the vaccine.

I hope all of your families are safe, and you can celebrate as safely as these weird circumstances allow.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

Happy Holidays, ya'll.

Crazy year for everyone, and I'm real glad to have you people to share it with.

Take care of yourselves, and hold out just a little longer for the vaccine.

I hope all of your families are safe, and you can celebrate as safely as these weird circumstances allow.

Ms Slothrop got vaccinated yesterday, so at least there's that. Hope you all are safe and well.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Happy Holidays to all of you!

May the coming year be full of vexatious litigation and hairy transactions!

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Happy Holidays to all of you!

May the coming year be full of vexatious litigation and hairy transactions!

I'm Jewish.

[Hank Chinaski]

CONF TO PLF (or anyone else who knows anything)

Hello, Lil advice? We are looking at getting a Peloton, but wonder if an Ektelon might be almost as good. Do you have any insight?

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

CONF TO PLF (or anyone else who knows anything)

Hello, Lil advice? We are looking at getting a Peloton, but wonder if an Ektelon might be almost as good. Do you have any insight?

I don’t know much about the Echelon, but one of the main benefits of the Peloton is that it has a huge archive of classes that you can search (for example, you can search for a 45 minute EDM class by instructor X, or a 30 minute HIIT class by instructor Y). I have found the instructors to be solid and the bike itself is good. The Echelon is probably significantly cheaper, but when you are trying to motivate yourself to go sit on a stationary bike, it helps to know that you have so many good classes to choose from, and I doubt any of the competitors can offer that right now, in part because they have not been around as long.