Nutjobs Ranting About Politics.

[LessinSF]

Originally posted by bilmore
(I probably shouldn't say that, as I am stuck at my guess of 64% probability of a Kerry win.)

Inerestingly, the offshore books have it reversed. Bush is almost a 3-2 favorite.

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
By any reasonable measure

The only "reasonable measure" you should be talking about is three fingers, pal.

As for this whole Swift Boat bullshit, which everyone still continues to find fascinating for reasons I cannot fathom, the bottom line is one guy went and got shot at and the other guy didn't. I don't give a rat's ass whether Kerry was in Cambodia on Boxing Day while Bush was brushing his teeth in Alabama, Texas or his dealer's house. Just try to tell me how W deserves more credit for staying home than Kerry deserves for going.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
My favorite:

• As president, John Kerry will not raise Social Security taxes, raise the retirement age, cut benefits for people that rely on Social Security, or privatize Social Security. He will consider making sure that high-income beneficiaries don't get more out than they pay in.

So, how does this "save" social security?

I'll admit it's not much. But at least when he talks about saving social security, he knows it doesn't have anything to do with it being born again. I'd rather that social security was not another faith-based initiative.

[Gattigap]

Cheney tells us during his RNC acceptance speech, "People tell me that Senator Edwards got picked for his good looks, his sex appeal, his charm, and his great hair. I said, "How do you think I got the job?"

Great line, but few of us knew the truth behind it.

Richard Cheney's true role in national politics? He's William H. Macy in The Cooler!

Should George W. Bush win this election, it will give him the distinction of being the first occupant of the White House to have survived naming Dick Cheney to a post in his administration. The Cheney jinx first manifested itself at the presidential level back in 1969, when Richard Nixon appointed him to his first job in the executive branch. It surfaced again in 1975, when Gerald Ford made Cheney his chief of staff and then -- with Cheney's help -- lost the 1976 election. George H.W. Bush, having named Cheney secretary of defense, was defeated for re-election in 1992. The ever-canny Ronald Reagan was the only Republican president since Eisenhower who managed to serve two full terms. He is also the only one not to have appointed Dick Cheney to office.

Clearly written with an agenda, but interesting factoids nonetheless. Sure, the 5 deferments I'd heard about, but who knew that Cheney flunked out of Yale (another one?) or that James Baker and Brent Scowcroft thought Cheney was crazy?

[SlaveNoMore]

Gattigap
Should George W. Bush win this election, it will give him the distinction of being the first occupant of the White House to have survived naming Dick Cheney to a post in his administration. The Cheney jinx first manifested itself at the presidential level back in 1969, when Richard Nixon appointed him to his first job in the executive branch. It surfaced again in 1975, when Gerald Ford made Cheney his chief of staff and then -- with Cheney's help -- lost the 1976 election. George H.W. Bush, having named Cheney secretary of defense, was defeated for re-election in 1992. The ever-canny Ronald Reagan was the only Republican president since Eisenhower who managed to serve two full terms. He is also the only one not to have appointed Dick Cheney to office.

The Nixon one is quite the stretch. He was re-elected in 1972 with more than 60% of the vote.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The Nixon one is quite the stretch. He was re-elected in 1972 with more than 60% of the vote.

Fair point, but give Cheney a break. At the time, he only worked in the Office of Economic Opportunity, so there was only so much he could do.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The Nixon one is quite the stretch. He was re-elected in 1972 with more than 60% of the vote.

Oddly enough, not what most people remember about his second term these days.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Apropos of Nothing
Well, it doesn't rule out means testing. And my memory is fuzzy on this, but doesn't the Social Security tax only apply to the first $80,000 of income? Removing the cap wouldn't be the same as increasing the tax.

It does, but I think the "middle class" would be pretty surprised to learn that while Kerry would "roll back" the bush tax cuts for the "rich" making over $200k per year, the middle class consisting of anyone making (per person) between $87,900 (current cut off, I think) and, say, $120k, all of a sudden got a flat increase of 6.2%, or up to nearly $2000.

And that's some nice wordsmithing, because I agree that anyone who "needs" it are not those who would be means-tested out. But that's not a very realistic approach--aren't you already taxed on 85% of the SS payments if your income is over a certain amount (the tax is not 85%, but you pay income tax on that amount). Do you raise that to over 100%?

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
It does, but I think the "middle class" would be pretty surprised to learn that while Kerry would "roll back" the bush tax cuts for the "rich" making over $200k per year, the middle class consisting of anyone making (per person) between $87,900 (current cut off, I think) and, say, $120k, all of a sudden got a flat increase of 6.2%, or up to nearly $2000.

And that's some nice wordsmithing, because I agree that anyone who "needs" it are not those who would be means-tested out. But that's not a very realistic approach--aren't you already taxed on 85% of the SS payments if your income is over a certain amount (the tax is not 85%, but you pay income tax on that amount). Do you raise that to over 100%?

Let's not forget this.

[SlaveNoMore]

Shape Shifter
Let's not forget

But who is going to do something about it?

John Kerry?

You, Lieutenant Weinberg?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Let's not forget

Kind of fun to watch that thing tick.

Let's see - whose watch are we on?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
But who is going to do something about it?

The way I see it, you can either elect John Kerry to battle a GOP Congress, or you can elect a Democratic Congress to battle President Bush. Since your strategy depends on the choices made by your fellow citizens, your odds of limiting spending seem much better to me with the former strategy.

Of course, if you are one of those conservatives who likes to bitch and moan about government taking your money but doesn't actually want to vote according to these principles, you could vote for Bush and hope that he miraculously finds his veto pen in his second term. Hope springs eternal.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

From CBS News, via Kevin Drum (everything that follows is Kevin's work, not mine; internal links omitted):

NATIONAL GUARD SMOKING GUN?....As you know, 60 Minutes is running a segment tonight that features Ben Barnes explaining how he pulled strings to get George Bush into the National Guard in 1968. But the segment also features something else: new documents from the personal files of Col. Jerry Killian, Bush's squadron commander. According to CBS News, here's a summary of the four new documents they've uncovered:

• A direct order to Bush to take a physical examination in 1972. Physical exams are an annual requirement for pilots.
  
• A 1972 memo that refers to a phone call from Bush in which he and Killian "discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November" because "he may not have time." This was presumably in preparation for Bush's departure for Alabama that year, but is nonetheless damning since there's no reason that working on a Senate campaign should have prevented him from showing up for drills one weekend per month.
  
• A 1972 order grounding Bush. This order refers not just to Bush's failure to take a physical, but also to "failure to perform to (USAF/TexANG) standards."
  
• A 1973 memo titled "CYA" in which Killian talks about being pressured to give Bush a favorable yearly evaluation. He refuses, saying, "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job."

This story is a perfect demonstration of the difference between the Swift Boat controversy and the National Guard controversy. Both are tales from long ago and both are related to Vietnam, but the documentary evidence in the two cases is like night and day. In the Swift Boat case, practically every new piece of documentary evidence indicates that Kerry's accusers are lying. Conversely, in the National Guard case, practically every new piece of documentary evidence provides additional confirmation that the charges against Bush are true.

In fact, these four memos are pretty close to a smoking gun, since it's now clear that (a) Bush was directly ordered to take a physical in 1972 and refused, and (b) he plainly failed to perform up to National Guard standards, but that (c) he was nonetheless given favorable evaluations thanks to high-level pressure.

So why did Bush refuse to take a physical that year? And why did he blow off drills for at least the next five months and possibly for a lot longer than that?

And finally, why did he get an honorable discharge anyway?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
So why did Bush refuse to take a physical that year?

Coke

eta: We have a choice this year between a former base head (who is since redeemed) and a former war criminal. Take your pick.

[Dave]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Coke

is IT! But that C2 stuff tastes like crap.

I'm not Dave Coulier, but I approved this message anyway. Damn I hate living in a battleground state.