Welcome back E/O, leagl and Fringey: no one say the name "Penske" 3 times in a row

[cheval de frise]

Originally Posted by 1436

He has no reason to change. Stop fucking him and go find someone who actually respects you.

And, I agree with Sidd that this is a rare topic where Hank has my proxy.

Well put (and 3).

CDF

[1436]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

Do you have a suggestion for a better way to "leave it alone"* than the tack she has taken thus far**? I guess she could get more socratic or say "ask your father", but either of those have most of the same pitfalls as just telling the truth or not.

*which I agree is the correct advice.
**which I think is walking the tightrope b/t telling the truth and not.

I like the Socratic advice.

Presumably she wasn't there and all she knows is based on her husband's description.* Admitting that ignorance and helping the daughter find the truth on her own may be the best advice.

*Which is likely closer to the truth, but there is no reason to take a position on that. Let the daughter see where the stories intersect and diverge.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I know maybe one couple who has an open relationship and that one doesn't seem to be working so well. I think both sides of the argument have to do with human nature. Sure, we all would like to screw other people. We also don't want the person we committed ourselves to, fucking other people. And for that reason, I think you're completely full of shit when you say the quid pro quo might ease the lack of comfort you would get knowing your wife is fucking other men.

TM

Yes, it would not be preferable, but how else could it be fair? If you're with someone else, your spouse has a right to be with someone else. You get "open" or you get "closed," but you don't get both. I'd have to look at it rationally. And if the quid pro quo were hot, well, fuck... Why not be a glass-half-full kind of guy?

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by ABBAKiss

I am terrified of being a single mother. My daughter is great, and I love her, but I have no interest in being a single mother. None. I am so fucking livid that I am. I am doing the best I can, but I do not want to be a mom on my own, and I cannot be with him, so I am fucking trapped.

I did not want kids. He talked me into it. I still do not want kids.

I think it's going to be hard for you to know what you want. Him buzzing around you is exerting a tidal force and getting in the way of clear judgment about what you want, because it will eventually turn into a false dichotomy -- him or being a single mom. And trust me, that dichotomy is very false.

Stop hate-fucking him. You want him to feel the hate, but the male genitalia contain zero receptive nerve endings for feeling hate and millions for feeling fucking, so you're not accomplishing any objective valuable to you. Please fuck Adder -- he needs it more than this guy.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by dtb

Interesting...

My stepdaughter's mother walked out and moved away (a four-hour drive) to go shack up with her boyfriend when my stepdaughter was five years old. She has recently made more of an effort to be part of her daughter's life (more than zero, that is), but she feeds her a load of BS about why she (the mother) left. Even my stepdaughter doesn't believe it. She says things to me like, "But that CAN'T be the real reason, because x,y,z." And she's quite right. The story is full of holes, even to a second-grader.

So, how honest should I be about her mother's departure? My husband leans toward being more rather than less honest (if she asks), but he's not sure either. I think he'd rather leave it to me.

I don't want to "tattle" on her mom, but I don't want to lie for her mom either.

The last time my stepdaughter said, "I just don't believe that's true" I just said, "I think you're right to be a little suspicious about that -- I don't believe that either."

Such a minefield.

Minefield? I know a woman who caught her dad sucking off her boyfriend in high school. That's a minefield. You've just got to respond in a lawyerly fashion to all inquiries about mom.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

Please fuck Adder -- he needs it more than this guy.

hi!

Except can you imagine the cosmic mess that would result?

[1436]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

I think it's going to be hard for you to know what you want. Him buzzing around you is exerting a tidal force and getting in the way of clear judgment about what you want, because it will eventually turn into a false dichotomy -- him or being a single mom. And trust me, that dichotomy is very false.

Stop hate-fucking him. You want him to feel the hate, but the male genitalia contain zero receptive nerve endings for feeling hate and millions for feeling fucking, so you're not accomplishing any objective valuable to you. Please fuck Adder -- he needs it more than this guy.

Well put. If I knew shit about big red italic twos there would be one here. But not too italicy, just that perfect lean.

We all need to think more about Adder and how we can help.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

I think it's going to be hard for you to know what you want. Him buzzing around you is exerting a tidal force and getting in the way of clear judgment about what you want, because it will eventually turn into a false dichotomy -- him or being a single mom. And trust me, that dichotomy is very false.

Stop hate-fucking him. You want him to feel the hate, but the male genitalia contain zero receptive nerve endings for feeling hate and millions for feeling fucking, so you're not accomplishing any objective valuable to you. Please fuck Adder -- he needs it more than this guy.

Dadder. It has a ring to it.

And he'd be good at it.

[1436]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Minefield? I know a woman who caught her dad sucking off her boyfriend in high school. That's a minefield.

Your book is overdue.

[dtb]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

Do you have a suggestion for a better way to "leave it alone"* than the tack she has taken thus far**? I guess she could get more socratic or say "ask your father", but either of those have most of the same pitfalls as just telling the truth or not.

*which I agree is the correct advice.
**which I think is walking the tightrope b/t telling the truth and not.

So far, I have just said things that are true without spilling everything (which I don't plan to do). I have said stuff like, "I think maybe your mother isn't ready to tell you the real reason, but someday she probably will" and things of that nature. I don't feel right covering for her mother, but I realize that doesn't mean I need to make full disclosure -- though my SD asks a lot of questions, which will only get more pointed as time goes on.

She will find out eventually, and I don't want her to think I was in on the lie. The dynamic had always been to pretend nothing was wrong with a woman walking out on her kids and her life, and that there was nothing unusual about that. But of course my SD knows and feels that it isn't normal and I think she's relieved to have someone to talk about it with. Her parents just change the subject. My view is when she's ready to hear the answer, she will ask a direct question.

[PresentTense Pirate Penske]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I know maybe one couple who has an open relationship and that one doesn't seem to be working so well. I think both sides of the argument have to do with human nature. Sure, we all would like to screw other people. We also don't want the person we committed ourselves to, fucking other people. And for that reason, I think you're completely full of shit when you say the quid pro quo might ease the lack of comfort you would get knowing your wife is fucking other men.

TM

[true story] People get really worked up over this issue. I remember some years back I was out at a bar in the Chi, with an old college friend of my first wife and some friends of the friend (a newly married midwestern couple in their early 30s). The first wife wasn't there. At that point, to, quote the Luniz, we had been together "too long". Anyhoo, the 4 of us got into a conceptual discussion of monogamy and cheating yada yada yada. So, much like some of my socks on the PB I staked out the outlier position and said sex is sex, its no big deal and I really don't care if the first wife is nailing someone else as long as its not Hank. The newlyweds, at least the wife, was super offended (and oozing insecurities) by this. We argued about for about 3 hours. By this time everyone was fairly buzzed, i.e. drunk as hell, and it was 2 in the AM, which made it seem like a good time to go to some late night place (the Catacombs in Lincoln Park I think it was called).

When we got there we kept arguing and I said I think I will pick up someone up and you can report it back to the wife if you want. Did I mention I was wearing a kilt? So I propositioned some drunken college girl who was arguing with her friends over whether I was truly "Scottish Style", which out of a sense of honour I did righteously prove and which such forthrighteousness endeared me to the coed and got me an invite back to her bachelorette pad. This whole exchange inflamed the newlywed wife who jumped into the fray and cockblocked me. All in all I didn't care as I wasn't going to go back to her place anyway, but it gave me more ability to stoke her fires on the monogamy/cheating issue. So we end up at the bar, she's drunk and livid about my behaviour and tries to order a drink and the bartender cuts her off. She turns around and starts to walk away from the bar, then whips around runs at the bar, hurdles it and takes out the bartender with a drunken haymaker.

End result, she ends up in jail and I end up not getting laid. All in the name of monogamy and anti-cheating. [/true story]

ymmv

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by 1436

Your book is overdue.

Actually, it just came out in paperback.

[dtb]

Originally Posted by 1436

I like the Socratic advice.

Presumably she wasn't there and all she knows is based on her husband's description.* Admitting that ignorance and helping the daughter find the truth on her own may be the best advice.

*Which is likely closer to the truth, but there is no reason to take a position on that. Let the daughter see where the stories intersect and diverge.

Actually, the reason I know is because the boyfriend told me. (Admission against interest!)

[barely_legal]

Originally Posted by ABBAKiss

I am terrified of being a single mother. My daughter is great, and I love her, but I have no interest in being a single mother. None. I am so fucking livid that I am. I am doing the best I can, but I do not want to be a mom on my own, and I cannot be with him, so I am fucking trapped.

I did not want kids. He talked me into it. I still do not want kids.

Well, since you fucked up and let an unreliable cheating douchebag convince you have a kid you didn't want maybe now you need to stop focusing on what YOU want and focus on what's best for your daughter. And do you think that growing up watching her mother hate-fuck a douchebag who habitually cheats and stalks her mom is going to help make her a happy and rational adult capable of making better decisions than you did?

I'm sorry this sounds mean, but jesus christ. I don't have kids but I feel perfectly justified in judging you right now because I MADE A CHOICE not to have kids until I had a partner who also wanted children because I, too, would prefer not to be a single mother. Own up to your mistakes and start putting your daughter first because she's the only victim here.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

Do you have a suggestion for a better way to "leave it alone"* than the tack she has taken thus far**? I guess she could get more socratic or say "ask your father", but either of those have most of the same pitfalls as just telling the truth or not.

*which I agree is the correct advice.
**which I think is walking the tightrope b/t telling the truth and not.

I think, "I don't know" is a good answer to most questions about the reasons for someone else's behavior. It's usually not a lie, though one can of course speculate.