A Friendly Correction for those Man-Haters who Delve to be Single

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

?

There was more than a minute left on the clock. The Seahawks used 40 seconds between 1st and 2nd down. When Marshawn Lynch (who hadn't had a negative run all day, by the way) drove them to the 1 yard line, Belichick should have called a timeout because everyone in the world (including Belichick) other than Carroll and Bevell knew Seattle was going to run the ball directly into the end zone the first chance they got because why risk it? Hell, people were saying that they should just let them score immediately since the probability was so high that they were going to score. That would give Brady a decent amount of time to mount a game-winning drive. He's done more with less.

I get it. It's funny that both Carroll and Belichick are being criticized for not calling a time out there.

I've seen it said that Belichick may have decided not to call time out because he thought his defense could make the plays and because it kept the pressure on Carroll. Who knows.

And his post-game admission that he would have called a timeout if they had run it on second down makes absolutely no sense because he's basically saying, in order to maximize time after Seattle scored, he would have done then what he should have done on the previous down.

Yeah, I don't get that either. I'm not sure that any of the participants were lucid enough to be explaining themselves well after the game.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

Do you even comprehend how hard it is to get a unanimous verdict of “unkempt” on a beyond a reasonable doubt standard of proof? Well then, shut up.

Hmm, maybe the g in lasagna is not silent?

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Hmm, maybe the g in lasagna is not silent?

Is this that weird anti-humor that’s really “in” right now?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

I wasn't on that train but here are my train travel rules nevertheless.

Never ride in the 1st car. It is exceptionally rare that something bad happens but when it does, the casualties are usually in the 1st car.

If you can, sit by an emergency window. Understand how to use it. Pull the red handles down, pull the window gasket off, push the window out. I have had to do thus during my commute at least once with no instruction for the commuter RR people.

If something bad happens, don't be scared to bail. Don't wait for RR people to instruct you. They are more apt to give instructions like the Port Authority gave people in the TT 9/11 --"Every thing is fine, nothing to worry about." The people who bail quickly are usually the survivors in any such situation.

Never go anywhere near the 3d rail.

My heart goes out to the victims.

Someone I work with lots was at the back of the train. Sounds like it was just an awful scene.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

I wasn't on that train but here are my train travel rules nevertheless.

Never ride in the 1st car. It is exceptionally rare that something bad happens but when it does, the casualties are usually in the 1st car.

If you can, sit by an emergency window. Understand how to use it. Pull the red handles down, pull the window gasket off, push the window out. I have had to do thus during my commute at least once with no instruction for the commuter RR people.

If something bad happens, don't be scared to bail. Don't wait for RR people to instruct you. They are more apt to give instructions like the Port Authority gave people in the TT 9/11 --"Every thing is fine, nothing to worry about." The people who bail quickly are usually the survivors in any such situation.

Never go anywhere near the 3d rail.

My heart goes out to the victims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC7vxjgSSsI

my friend was in a train crash and has that exact same advice

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Yeah, I don't get that either. I'm not sure that any of the participants were lucid enough to be explaining themselves well after the game.

Probably right. I also think it's funny that Belichick is somehow getting credit for baiting Carroll into throwing that pass by loading up the line of scrimmage to stop one of the most physical backs in the history of football from running less than a yard. Belichick is the best coach in the league (and I think the history of football), but he was really just trying to stop Lynch.

TM

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Probably right. I also think it's funny that Belichick is somehow getting credit for baiting Carroll into throwing that pass by loading up the line of scrimmage to stop one of the most physical backs in the history of football from running less than a yard. Belichick is the best coach in the league (and I think the history of football), but he was really just trying to stop Lynch.

Totally. Man coverage on each receiver, like they had been playing all game.

In some sports (I'm looking at you college basketball), the announcers make much too much of what the coaches are doing. The coaches can try to get the right match-ups, but the players make the plays. If Hightower doesn't somehow fight through a block and trip Lynch at the 1 on the prior play, we're not talking about any of this.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Totally. Man coverage on each receiver, like they had been playing all game.

In some sports (I'm looking at you college basketball), the announcers make much too much of what the coaches are doing. The coaches can try to get the right match-ups, but the players make the plays. If Hightower doesn't somehow fight through a block and trip Lynch at the 1 on the prior play, we're not talking about any of this.

Bill Simmons has my proxy on just about everything here, especially recommending the clip of Lynch and Gronkowski with Conan, but also what he says about the last plays.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Bill Simmons has my proxy on just about everything here, especially recommending the clip of Lynch and Gronkowski with Conan, but also what he says about the last plays.

Simmons is absolutely unreadable when it comes to any New England team.

TM

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Simmons is absolutely unreadable when it comes to any New England team.

Fair point. But scroll down to the last YouTube clip -- you can see Butler tell Browner what's coming. And what's below it about Belichick not calling time out is excellent.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/sho...postcount=3088

http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/sho...postcount=3089

http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/sho...postcount=3090

http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/sho...postcount=3091

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Fair point. But scroll down to the last YouTube clip -- you can see Butler tell Browner what's coming.

I actually read quite a bit of it this morning, but had to stop.

Look, it's a nice narrative and I'm sure the Patriots practiced against a pick play (which is a pretty common play in NFL football), but watch the video again. First, seems to me Butler could be saying anything. He could be saying, "Pick play." He could be saying, "I got wide." He could be saying, "Don't switch."

Second, Butler's play was fantastic. There is no question. But Simmons drooling commentary about how he beat him to the spot is just stupid. Once you think it's a pick play, any halfway decent corner knows he has to get to the goal line first or it's a touch down. That's where the ball has to be on that play. And it sure looks to me like he's closer to that spot than the receiver to start. Not trying to take anything away from Butler, but that's the reality.

All that is why Simmons is so fucking annoying. Maybe I'm wrong and he interviewed Butler or heard Butler say exactly what Simmons wrote he thought, but Jesus. It's a great play without all of the bullshit speculation. Just let it be.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

And what's below it about Belichick not calling time out is excellent.

This?:

Originally Posted by Simmons

And yet, Belichick never had that one signature moment. We never caught it when it happened in this Seahawks game — that’s how good this one was. We thought he fell asleep. We thought he froze. Repeat: We thought Bill Belichick froze.

You know what really happened? Belichick trusted seven months of practice and two weeks of scouting, and he trusted the fact that he’d already prepared a 24-year-old undrafted rookie to react perfectly, historically and remarkably if that slant was coming. He’ll never get credit because the whole thing seemed too improbable. After all, how could a coach behave THAT differently from every other coach in that exact same spot?

The answer: He’s not like any other coach. Of anyone — seriously, of anyone — he’s the one guy who would stand there and say, “You know what? I think Pete Carroll might screw this up. I’m not doing anything even if I don’t have the best hand. I’m gonna let him raise the pot. CHECK.” The rest was history. Whenever you’re arguing about the greatest NFL coaches of all time, just remember the final minute of Super Bowl XLIX. The man finally gave us his version of Jordan’s game winner in the ’98 Finals. And like everything else that happened with the great Bill Belichick over the years, nobody totally believed him.

Because that's garbage. If I were a Patriots fan I would be embarrassed by this.

He completely and intentionally skates over the debate about whether it makes sense to run with Lynch in that situation because he wants Belichick to be some kind of manipulative genius. Leaning on the argument that, statistically speaking, looking at every goal line play of all the teams and determining that there is just as likely to be a fumble as an interception is just ridiculous. You have to look at these two teams. He doesn't do that purposefully. You have to look at that defensive line, that offensive line, and that running back. Why is the fumble to interception ratio he quotes dispositive? Why shouldn't we look at all of Lynch's short yardage plays? All of his running plays (he averaged somethign like 4.7 yards per rush). Simmons is such a homer that he simply can't be taken seriously.

More likely, you're talking about this load of horseshit:

Originally Posted by Simmons

Pardon my French, but I’m going out on a limb and saying it wasn’t a fucking accident that Belichick never called timeout. He said to himself, We have a better chance of stoning them than we do of getting that field goal.13 He redirected the pressure to Seattle’s side and hoped they’d implode. Well …

0:30: There’s still confusion on Seattle’s side. Lynch is on the right and Wilson tells him to shift to the left. So he does. Seattle is about to run a slant pass out of a three-receiver set against an eight-man front and three cornerbacks … in other words, it’s the right defense for this specific situation. Belichick knows it. Pete Carroll doesn’t realize it.

Come on. Stop it. If Seattle scores, all the Patriots need is a field goal and it's tied. He has more confidence he's going to get a stop than he does in Brady making a few plays to get within field goal range? Insanity. You think Belichick was thinking, "Fuck overtime, I'm going with goal-line stand. And because I know Carroll so well, I'm going to assume he's going to keep the best back in the league from doing what he does best in favor of throwing a risky slant--a play I have over-prepared my team to defend against. So I'm going to let precious time tick off the clock because I am certain that we will stop this slant and both run plays that are coming up, to win this game! I'm in Carroll's head!"

I wouldn't wipe my ass with Simmons' fan-boy analysis of this game. He's writing for his friends. I think he truly believes it, but it's so over-the-top ridiculous that you really shouldn't have cited to it.

TM

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Simmons is absolutely unreadable
TM

Fixed that for you.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I actually read quite a bit of it this morning, but had to stop.

Look, it's a nice narrative and I'm sure the Patriots practiced against a pick play (which is a pretty common play in NFL football), but watch the video again. First, seems to me Butler could be saying anything. He could be saying, "Pick play." He could be saying, "I got wide." He could be saying, "Don't switch."

Sure. But since he anticipates what happens moments later, one can surmise he's saying something key there. I'd love to see a reporter ask him what he said there. Obviously Simmons doesn't know any more that you or I do, but I do credit him with finding and sharing the YouTube clip that shows something I hadn't seen.

Second, Butler's play was fantastic. There is no question. But Simmons drooling commentary about how he beat him to the spot is just stupid. Once you think it's a pick play, any halfway decent corner knows he has to get to the goal line first or it's a touch down. That's where the ball has to be on that play. And it sure looks to me like he's closer to that spot than the receiver to start. Not trying to take anything away from Butler, but that's the reality.

I think you could have just stopped after you said the play was fantastic. Any halfway decent corner may know that, but it's hard to do.

All that is why Simmons is so fucking annoying. Maybe I'm wrong and he interviewed Butler or heard Butler say exactly what Simmons wrote he thought, but Jesus. It's a great play without all of the bullshit speculation. Just let it be.

Simmons is really, really annoying in all sorts of different ways, which is why I rarely read him. But he is better than just about anybody else I can think of at watching a game and noticing things that other people haven't seen or put together. Most sports journalists don't do this, they rely on their access to insiders and then they share quotes and insight, which is why Marshawn Lynch's refusal to be a trained seal during interviews bugs them so much.

This?:

Because that's garbage. If I were a Patriots fan I would be embarrassed by this.

He completely and intentionally skates over the debate about whether it makes sense to run with Lynch in that situation because he wants Belichick to be some kind of manipulative genius. Leaning on the argument that, statistically speaking, looking at every goal line play of all the teams and determining that there is just as likely to be a fumble as an interception is just ridiculous. You have to look at these two teams. He doesn't do that purposefully. You have to look at that defensive line, that offensive line, and that running back. Why is the fumble to interception ratio he quotes dispositive? Why shouldn't we look at all of Lynch's short yardage plays? All of his running plays (he averaged somethign like 4.7 yards per rush). Simmons is such a homer that he simply can't be taken seriously.

He doesn't skate on that. He says that Carroll was expecting Belichick to take the TO, and that Belichick decided that his odds were better if he didn't, in part because it put pressure back on Carroll.

About Carroll's decision to throw the slant instead of run, he says:

The Seahawks took too much heat for the final play call; statistically, it’s slightly less likely to throw a pick than fumble from the 1 (according to 2014 data, anyway). You also had Carroll’s lingering 2006 Rose Bowl shadow (the generic fourth-and-2 call to LenDale White that got stuffed and cost USC the game), as well as their balls-to-the-wall attitude in general (the same mentality that got the Seahawks that end-of-the-first-half touchdown and the fake field goal touchdown two weeks ago). That’s not a switch you shut off in big moments. You are who you are.

Their biggest mistake (in my opinion) was not rolling Wilson out for a safer run/throw/throw-it-away play. Throwing a quick slant to a below-average receiver (Lockette) carried too much unnecessary risk. This wasn’t Randall Cobb or Edelman or Dez Bryant. What if the ball bounced off Lockette’s hands or shoulder pads and went popping up in the air? What if the ball got tipped? This wasn’t a stupid call as much as an arrogant one. Then again, look at this …



If you’re Wilson, don’t you happily throw that ball every time? Can’t we just say that Butler made an all-time unbelievable play? If Revis made it, wouldn’t it have been treated differently?

I agree.

More likely, you're talking about this load of horseshit:

Come on. Stop it. If Seattle scores, all the Patriots need is a field goal and it's tied. He has more confidence he's going to get a stop than he does in Brady making a few plays to get within field goal range? Insanity. You think Belichick was thinking, "Fuck overtime, I'm going with goal-line stand. And because I know Carroll so well, I'm going to assume he's going to keep the best back in the league from doing what he does best in favor of throwing a risky slant--a play I have over-prepared my team to defend against. So I'm going to let precious time tick off the clock because I am certain that we will stop this slant and both run plays that are coming up, to win this game! I'm in Carroll's head!"

I can't believe Belichick was that confident in the moment -- he didn't look happy at all. But he thought his chances with his defense were better than his chances of letting them score and then getting a field goal (which only gets you to OT). He only had two TOs, and his passing game hasn't been deep balls and sideline throws -- it was a lot of passes underneath that eat up time. It reminds me of Bobby Knight's team playing Syracuse in the NCAA final (sorry BnB) and not calling time out, which would have let Syracuse set its defense up.

I wouldn't wipe my ass with Simmons' fan-boy analysis of this game. He's writing for his friends. I think he truly believes it, but it's so over-the-top ridiculous that you really shouldn't have cited to it.

Also, think what it'd do to your smartphone. I think Simmons is basically right, and I'm sorry you didn't like it.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Sure. But since he anticipates what happens moments later, one can surmise he's saying something key there. I'd love to see a reporter ask him what he said there. Obviously Simmons doesn't know any more that you or I do, but I do credit him with finding and sharing the YouTube clip that shows something I hadn't seen.



I think you could have just stopped after you said the play was fantastic. Any halfway decent corner may know that, but it's hard to do.



Simmons is really, really annoying in all sorts of different ways, which is why I rarely read him. But he is better than just about anybody else I can think of at watching a game and noticing things that other people haven't seen or put together. Most sports journalists don't do this, they rely on their access to insiders and then they share quotes and insight, which is why Marshawn Lynch's refusal to be a trained seal during interviews bugs them so much.



He doesn't skate on that. He says that Carroll was expecting Belichick to take the TO, and that Belichick decided that his odds were better if he didn't, in part because it put pressure back on Carroll.

About Carroll's decision to throw the slant instead of run, he says:



I agree.



I can't believe Belichick was that confident in the moment -- he didn't look happy at all. But he thought his chances with his defense were better than his chances of letting them score and then getting a field goal (which only gets you to OT). He only had two TOs, and his passing game hasn't been deep balls and sideline throws -- it was a lot of passes underneath that eat up time. It reminds me of Bobby Knight's team playing Syracuse in the NCAA final (sorry BnB) and not calling time out, which would have let Syracuse set its defense up.



Also, think what it'd do to your smartphone. I think Simmons is basically right, and I'm sorry you didn't like it.

I hate baseball, but this thread is making me wish the season would start sooner. Just sayin'.