Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

My summer drink is a nice chilled white port. I think the gene that makes people like gin came from the intensive in-breeding that occurred because England is on a fairly small island.

Gin came to England from Holland with William of Orange. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b084zk6z

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

Gin is for between Memorial Day and Labor Day, only. Hendricks and/or Tanqueray Ten but both are completely different ends of the spectrum and can't be consumed within the same week.

Sapphire, is only if there is absolutely nothing else . . . on second thought I'll have a Diet Sprite.

A man who drinks Tanquery Ten should not be making rules for others.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

Gin came to England from Holland with William of Orange. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b084zk6z

What is white port and how can you drink several?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

Gin came to England from Holland with William of Orange. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b084zk6z

Yet the Dutch drink beer....

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I have started to drink gin even though my people are from Kaulonia, in Calabria. For years I'd ask Italian wine stores about Calabrese wines, with little feedback. Then I visited Kaulonia. My cousin's pour Sprite in the local red wine to make it drinkable. Gin is definitely a step up for my roots.

I can't find the "like" button for this post.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Adder

Gin came to England from Holland with William of Orange. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b084zk6z

He is also the reason carrots are orange.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Where did US manufacturing jobs go?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Where did US manufacturing jobs go?

Yup

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Where did US manufacturing jobs go?

It's a good question but I don't think he's answered it.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

One of the reasons Hillary lost was because minority voters didn't come out to vote for her.

Please stop perpetuating this bullshit.

Hillary won the black vote overwhelmingly. She garnered almost 90%. Trump got fucking crushed and it would have been worse if Republicans didn't suppress the black vote in all sorts of ways. If you're going to compare her performance to Obama's numbers, you're a fool. She outperformed Bill Clinton in his reelection bid. She matched Kerry. Gore did a little better.

It's a similar story with Hispanics. She got 65% of the Hispanic vote. Gore got 62%. Bill got 73%. In '08, Obama got 67% and against Romney he got 73%.

Trump did worse among minorities than anyone other than fucking Dole. Relatively speaking,* minorities aren't to blame for this fucking debacle.

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/poll...-groups-voted/

TM

*And I say this because our country is filled with apathetic assholes who can't be bothered to keep assholes from destroying the country.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Please stop perpetuating this bullshit.

Hillary won the black vote overwhelmingly. She garnered almost 90%. Trump got fucking crushed and it would have been worse if Republicans didn't suppress the black vote in all sorts of ways. If you're going to compare her performance to Obama's numbers, you're a fool. She outperformed Bill Clinton in his reelection bid. She matched Kerry. Gore did a little better.

It's a similar story with Hispanics. She got 65% of the Hispanic vote. Gore got 62%. Bill got 73%. In '08, Obama got 67% and against Romney he got 73%.

Trump did worse among minorities than anyone other than fucking Dole. Relatively speaking,* minorities aren't to blame for this fucking debacle.

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/poll...-groups-voted/

TM

*And I say this because our country is filled with apathetic assholes who can't be bothered to keep assholes from destroying the country.

Yeh, Sebby has good reason to deflect. He voted against her in a key state.

So of course he's going to blame it on the blacks.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Please stop perpetuating this bullshit.

Hillary won the black vote overwhelmingly. She garnered almost 90%. Trump got fucking crushed and it would have been worse if Republicans didn't suppress the black vote in all sorts of ways. If you're going to compare her performance to Obama's numbers, you're a fool. She outperformed Bill Clinton in his reelection bid. She matched Kerry. Gore did a little better.

It's a similar story with Hispanics. She got 65% of the Hispanic vote. Gore got 62%. Bill got 73%. In '08, Obama got 67% and against Romney he got 73%.

Trump did worse among minorities than anyone other than fucking Dole. Relatively speaking,* minorities aren't to blame for this fucking debacle.

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/poll...-groups-voted/

TM

*And I say this because our country is filled with apathetic assholes who can't be bothered to keep assholes from destroying the country.

Those are percentages of voters. The important issue is how many total minority voters were there versus 2012, 2008, 04, and 00?

And even on a percentage basis, Trump bizarrely did better than expected among minorities.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/09/politi...-white-voters/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/omriben.../#586d415064e4

http://www.phillytrib.com/news/black...d7639dc97.html

And contrary to GGG's silly post, of course I'm not blaming any one group. As your quote from my earlier post acknowledges, I cited lower minority voter turnout as one of many factors.

And I'm also not discounting voter suppression. Why there was lower minority voter turnout is a different discussion.

I also don't think you can call someone a fool for comparing her to Obama in 2012.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Long, but worth it: https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2...new-class-war/

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Yeh, Sebby has good reason to deflect. He voted against her in a key state.

So of course he's going to blame it on the blacks.

Would I have been voting against her if I just stayed home?

This is getting tiresome, but I could only have voted against her if I had an obligation to vote for her.

From where does this obligation stem? From you, or Hank? Are you suggesting I, or anyone else for that matter, has an obligation to vote for someone?

Are you really saying I had a duty to cast my vote for Hillary and I shirked it? That's some pretty crazy ass moral pedestal assumption you've engaged in there, old boy.

And I've not deflected, once. Deflection's for those seeking to offload responsibility. I own the fact that I did not vote for HRC. I'm not hiding from it. Nor am I hiding from the fact that if more people who voted as I did voted for her, she could have won. These are objective realities. It is also an objective reality, to people who read English as at least a third language, that I did not vote against her. I took nothing away from her which she otherwise had. Vis a vis HRC, I am a neutral actor. ...And you a man looking to gin up guilt in very much the wrong place.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Those are percentages of voters. The important issue is how many total minority voters were there versus 2012, 2008, 04, and 00?

Do the research and then let's discuss. But, when comparing numbers of black voters, if you're going off of the drop from Obama to Hillary, you're a fool. More on this below.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

And even on a percentage basis, Trump bizarrely did better than expected among minorities.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/09/politi...-white-voters/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/omriben.../#586d415064e4

http://www.phillytrib.com/news/black...d7639dc97.html

Do you realize none of those articles really supports your argument?

The first: "Some 88% of African-American voters supported Clinton, versus 8% for Donald Trump, as of very early Wednesday morning. While that's a large margin, it's not as big as Obama's victory over Mitt Romney in 2012. Obama locked up 93% of the black vote to Romney's 7%.

Some 12% of the electorate was African-American this year, compared to 13% four years ago."

Uh...shocking?

The second: Actually, I'm not sure why you posted a link to the second at all. Is it because of this?: "It is of course true that in some areas, like Pennsylvania, Trump’s gains over Romney were more impressive than Clinton’s loss of Obama voters." Can't be.

The third: "The number of Black ballots counted nationally significantly decreased by more than 11 percent when compared to Black voter performance in the previous 2012 presidential election cycle, numbers show."

Again, see below when it comes to comparing Hillary's numbers with black voters to Obama's. Also, from the article:

"However, many critics, particularly in the Black political community and on social media, have vigorously pushed back against the notion that Black voters are to blame for huge Republican gains this election cycle, instead pointing to a massive wave of white voters — especially in Rust Belt and Southern states — that overwhelmingly broke for Republican nominee Donald Trump in a contentious and racially charged political campaign."

In fact, the whole article seems to just compare black voting numbers in 2016 against 2012.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

And contrary to GGG's silly post, of course I'm not blaming any one group. As your quote from my earlier post acknowledges, I cited lower minority voter turnout as one of many factors.

And I'm also not discounting voter suppression. Why there was lower minority voter turnout is a different discussion.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I also don't think you can call someone a fool for comparing her to Obama in 2012.

Of course I can. There isn't a person with a working brain walking this Earth who doesn't understand that the twice in a fucking lifetime chance to vote for a black man* for President will drive the black vote way up every single time (with a corresponding drop when he's no longer running).

TM

*And if you mention Carson or Keyes or anyone in a primary decades ago, go ahead and draft up my completely predictable response yourself.