Keeping it civil instead of returning to our dark ways

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
(note: I think pretty much all conlaw is just totally made up bullshit crap.)

I feel the same way about ERISA.

[SlaveNoMore]

Sidd Finch
1) Hello spends the day saying that I'm a racist living in a gated community (because I disagree with his view that, rather than order children be bussed, the courts should have directed the feds to forcibly integrate every community in America).

I haven't had time to follow the Section 8 discussion - no disrepect to the posters intended - it's just too fucking long, so I have no idea what was said.

2) In response to Hello, Sebby cites Ann Coulter as saying that all liberals are anti-Semites

If we were talking busing, what does anti-semitism have anything to do with it?

3) You respond to Sebby with, well, if I were to listen to Chomsky and these two other freaks, I would have to agree.

Right. If I listened to these particular liberals, I'd think liberals were anti-Semites. Yup.

Perhaps you didn't mean to support Hello in this argument.

Seeing as Sebs comment wasn't even repsonsive to Hello at all, I dont see how my statement could have anything to do with Hello's apparent thesis.

Perhaps you didn't mean to support the Coulter view of me and other liberals.

What part of what I've said now repeatedly are you taking a problem with?

Perhaps you really meant to say that Ann Coulter is a piece of shit, and that you disagree with her tactic of taking the worst elements of the hard, ivory-tower left and painting everyone left of Arlen Specter as being identical to those people.

Sure I disagree with that. I equally disagree with the tactic of Maureen Dowd, Atrios, Daily Kos, and several on this Board who daily take the worst elements of Bob Jones III and paint every Republican - including the libertarians and federalists - as being identical to those people

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Sure I disagree with that. I equally disagree with the tactic of Maureen Dowd, Atrios, Daily Kos, and several on this Board who daily take the worst elements of Bob Jones III and paint every Republican - including the libertarians and federalists - as being identical to those people

There is no one from the Democratic Party in national office who is anywhere approaching the beliefs of Chomsky or those crazy Columbian Arabs. On the other hand, the Reps have DeMint, Santorum, and Coburn in the Senate, Ashcroft served for years as AG, I could go on. And let's not forget that W kicked off the the SC primary in 2000 at BJU. If the libertarians and federalists don't like it, they need to clean house in their chosen party.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore

Sure I disagree with that. I equally disagree with the tactic of Maureen Dowd, Atrios, Daily Kos, and several on this Board who daily take the worst elements of Bob Jones III and paint every Republican - including the libertarians and federalists - as being identical to those people

I have been careful in every single comment to note that your are not a BJU freak, but that you should be ashamed for being in bed with people like that. You can't refute that those waterheads have a very strong voice in your (and my ex) party. On his worst day, Noam Chomsky isn't a fucking piece of hate spewing white trash like Bob Jones and the like.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
If we were talking busing, what does anti-semitism have anything to do with it?

Sebby was pointing out Hello's style -- "you're all racists" -- echoes Coulter's style -- "you're all anti-Semites."

Right. If I listened to these particular liberals, I'd think liberals were anti-Semites. Yup.

No. If you listened to those people and thought that they were representative of liberals, you would think that. And you would be a hopeless asshole. Just as I would be if I responded to a comment of "conservatives are racist" by saying "well, David Duke is surely a racist, and he's a conservative, and a whole lot of conservatives voted for him, so that must be true."

Seeing as Sebs comment wasn't even repsonsive to Hello at all, I dont see how my statement could have anything to do with Hello's apparent thesis.

See above. Sebby was pointing out a particular style of argument -- a "all liberals are bad evil people" style -- and that was the bandwagon you chose to jump on, by expressing your agreement with Coulter.

What part of what I've said now repeatedly are you taking a problem with?

I'm waiting for you to say that Coulter is full of shit. Not "Boy, I really hate when people make stupid comments -- like when bloggers trash conservatives." And not, "well, here are a couple of examples that support her argument."

Sure I disagree with that.

You didn't. You expressed your agreement with it.

I equally disagree with the tactic of Maureen Dowd, Atrios, Daily Kos, and several on this Board who daily take the worst elements of Bob Jones III and paint every Republican - including the libertarians and federalists - as being identical to those people

When I see someone on this board do that, I'll respond accordingly.

If someone on this board identifies a particular instance of Dowd or some blogger I don't read (which means all political bloggers), I will do one of two things:
-- ignore it completely because I have better things to do.
-- express my disagreement with the comment.

What I won't do -- and what you did do -- is say "well, here's a couple of examples to support their point.

[Sidd Finch]

oops. Editing error.

[SlaveNoMore]

Shape Shifter
There is no one from the Democratic Party in national office who is anywhere approaching the beliefs of Chomsky or those crazy Columbian Arabs. On the other hand, the Reps have DeMint, Santorum, and Coburn in the Senate

You have a former Grand Kleagle of the Ku Klux Klan.

Does this abomination reflect your personal views?

Ashcroft served for years as AG, I could go on.

Didn't Yglesias recently write how Ashcroft did not let his Christian views affect his enforcement of the law?

And let's not forget that W kicked off the the SC primary in 2000 at BJU.

Poor taste, yes. We hardly have a monopoly on that.

[SlaveNoMore]

sebastian_dangerfield
On his worst day, Noam Chomsky isn't a fucking piece of hate spewing white trash like Bob Jones and the like.

They are both hate spewing trash.

One, however, is a media darling and poster boy of the Ivory Tower.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Anyhow, figure out where the problems are and figure out any way to solve them. Or watch your share of the electorate continue to shrink. Either way. I'd just rather see the country take the highest moral ground, whether its the Dems or Reps that do it.

I am reluctant to respond at all to this, because I've already participated in a few of your past Public Housing Jamborees, but I have to say that your "or watch your share of the electorate continue to shrink" thesis makes no sense.

Nothing would be more sure to drive the libertarian/small government moderates further away from the dem party than to espouse the forced expansion (and increased cost) of the Say Hello To Section 8 in the Suburbs plan. And of course the people who would benefit the most from this reform would be the inner city folks who, according to those colorful maps I saw a few weeks ago, already vote Dem. Hard to see how this could be a ticket to anything except well-meaning failure. We're already fully stocked up on that, thanks.

If your beloved Rs want to dismantle the system and have the votes to do so, I say they should have at it. We Ds do not exist solely to be their conscience.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I'm a little surprised to see that everyone would rather discuss Noam Chomsky's views on Section 8 vouchers than discuss the Republicans' failure to pass any kind of intelligence reform. CIA leaks hurting Bush's campaign get CIA staffers purged, but the institutional failures that led to 9/11 are no big problem, it appears.

Anyhoo, the truly amazing thing about the death of the intel reform bill is that GOP leaders in the House did not bring the bill to a vote even though they knew they had a majority of the votes. The reason? They say the problem is that they didn't have a majority of the majority. In other words, they don't care about how the Democrats are going to vote -- they've decided to effectively disenfranchise the Democrats in Congress by only letting bills pass when they have majority support among Republicans.

What this shows is that Republican leaders like Denny Hastert et alia place a greater value on Republican unity than they do on national security, inasmuch as they are willing to sacrifice intel reform to avoid passing a bill with Democratic votes.

It also suggests that Bush was lying when he said he supports the bill. Especially when you hear the reports that Rumsfeld was lobbying against it. Imagine if Colin Powell pulled a stunt like that? He'd be gone. (Oops -- he is.)

After this fiasco, maybe we can stop taking Republicans seriously when they talking about "bipartisanship." It's clear that in the House, the rules are Republican votes are the only ones that count, and whether or not Dems sign on too is just for show.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
They are both hate spewing trash.

One, however, is a media darling and poster boy of the Ivory Tower.

I despise the ivory tower, and ivory tower pseudo-radicals who suck the federal government tit in particular.

And yet, I manage to think Ann Coulter is a cunt, too. It's amazing how I can hold those two thoughts in my head.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by The Larry Davis Experience
Nothing would be more sure to drive the libertarian/small government moderates further away from the dem party than to espouse the forced expansion (and increased cost) of the Say Hello To Section 8 in the Suburbs plan.

Might I just say that I like the title of this plan. Works on multiple levels.

And of course the people who would benefit the most from this reform would be the inner city folks who, according to those colorful maps I saw a few weeks ago, already vote Dem.

This point reminds me that the casting of inner city poor to every community in the country, in addition to startling the absolute shit out of towns in Maine, Montana and Nebraska, would also play havoc with DeLay's carefully constructed congressional districts.

Havoc to the detriment of Democrats, I'd imagine, as a core Dem constituency is scattered amongst the Republican districts that would throw a party for them.

Maybe Sidd's right. Maybe Hello is Karl Rove's red-headed stepchild.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
You have a former Grand Kleagle of the Ku Klux Klan.

Does this abomination reflect your personal views?

I assume you're talking about Senator Byrd. I don't know much about the nature of his involvement with the KKK, but I suspect it was similar to Hugo Black's, or Rehnquist once refusing to rent properties to blacks. I would gladly condemn any statements made or policies supported by Byrd that I perceived as racist.

Didn't Yglesias recently write how Ashcroft did not let his Christian views affect his enforcement of the law?

I read it but I didn't agree with it. I thought Krugman nailed it when he described Ashcroft as the worst AG in history.

Poor taste, yes. We hardly have a monopoly on that.

This is poor taste that catapulted W to the R nomination. I challenge you to find a legitimate Dem presidential candidate in the last 30 years that did something so tasteless as launch a primary campaign from a university that forbade interracial dating (Clinton allowing the execution of the retard doesn't count, unless you really want a detailed discussion of executions in TX under W).

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
those crazy Columbian Arabs

This phrase gave me the chuckles.

That is the only comment I have on anything discussed today.

[SlaveNoMore]

Shape Shifter
I assume you're talking about Senator Byrd. I don't know much about the nature of his involvement with the KKK, but I suspect it was similar to Hugo Black's, or Rehnquist once refusing to rent properties to blacks.

I am not familiar with this Rehnquist claim. However, I really don't see how being an active participant in the Klan and refusing to rent a property to someone is comparable.

I would gladly condemn any statements made or policies supported by Byrd that I perceived as racist.

He voted against the desegregation of the Armed Forces and he personally fillibustered the Civil Rights Act of 64. And the guy is still around.

I read it but I didn't agree with it. I thought Krugman nailed it when he described Ashcroft as the worst AG in history.

Fair enough

This is poor taste that catapulted W to the R nomination. I challenge you to find a legitimate Dem presidential candidate in the last 30 years that did something so tasteless as launch a primary campaign from a university that forbade interracial dating

Catapulted?

In any event, I would argue that sharing the Presidential debate podium with Al Sharpton is equally as odious.