General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I think I broke the board.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
I've been asked by a newbie (hi!) to ask for information about firm's policies re parental leave. If you don't feel comfortable posting about it, PM me and I will sanitize it.

Formal policy -- there is a child care leave policy for the primary caregiver; 2 weeks paid on top of 4 weeks paid vacation, 6 to 8 weeks unpaid. My bet is we're average to below in the Boston market as far as formal policies go (I know of some who have a formal leave for non-primary care giver).

Reality -- men are rarely for a week after their kid is born, but usually after a day or two are checking in from home fairly frequently. Some take two or three weeks then, some hold off and take time later. No one ever seems to count time off here, as long as you have a workaholic reputation when around. On an informal basis, people do take time and we're probably more liberal than most in this market.

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Formal policy -- there is a child care leave policy for the primary caregiver; 2 weeks paid on top of 4 weeks paid vacation, 6 to 8 weeks unpaid. My bet is we're average to below in the Boston market as far as formal policies go (I know of some who have a formal leave for non-primary care giver).

biglaw boston: 12 weeks paid (and annualized for purposes of computing billable hours for comp year) maternity; this is under short term disability, therefore independent of vacation time; there is a paid and annualized paternity leave as well, but I don't know how long.

You didn't break the board- we just seem to have these long lapses in conversation.

how is everyone?

[viet_mom]

Originally posted by yertle
Fire her, now. It actually doesn't matter if you are right or wrong- she's watching your baby, and you (and viet babe) are not comfortable with her. The few days that your life is disrupted finding a replacement are nothing. Ain't parenting grand???

I didn't really think things were bad, but rather, the Nanny probably watched too much TV and maybe Vietbabe just didn't like her. I had caught her "nodding off" on the couch once but that was it. But I took this advice you gave (as well as the other posters, especially the one whose child had his bunny toy beaten up at the behest of the sitter and said "listen to your child") and hired a new gal who can't start until start Feb. 9. I figured I could at least leave today to go for the office a few hours. I did. But first turned on the Nanny Cam that arrived at 6 am this morning and which I set up.

The footage was shocking. I don't want to say more, except that I just finished watching 6 hours of my child sobbing pathetically (for good reason) in a corner -- a place I was actually happy to see the Nanny keep her in after witnessing the results of the three attempts at contact my daughter made with her. Will be working through with family re: what to do next.

Thanks for giving me the guts to do this. Obviously, I am going to recommend that EVERYONE with childcare get a Nanny Cam, if only to watch how your child spends ONE DAY. Fuck privacy.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by viet_mom
I didn't really think things were bad, but rather, the Nanny probably watched too much TV and maybe Vietbabe just didn't like her. I had caught her "nodding off" on the couch once but that was it. But I took this advice you gave (as well as the other posters, especially the one whose child had his bunny toy beaten up at the behest of the sitter and said "listen to your child") and hired a new gal who can't start until start Feb. 9. I figured I could at least leave today to go for the office a few hours. I did. But first turned on the Nanny Cam that arrived at 6 am this morning and which I set up.

The footage was shocking. I don't want to say more, except that I just finished watching 6 hours of my child sobbing pathetically (for good reason) in a corner -- a place I was actually happy to see the Nanny keep her in after witnessing the results of the three attempts at contact my daughter made with her. Will be working through with family re: what to do next.

Thanks for giving me the guts to do this. Obviously, I am going to recommend that EVERYONE with childcare get a Nanny Cam, if only to watch how your child spends ONE DAY. Fuck privacy.

That's just absolutely awful. I am so sorry.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by viet_mom
[Yikes!]

Yeeeeeeesh. I don't even know if I had an opinion on Nanny Cams until now, but do what you have to do to make sure this woman isn't alone with children anymore. I'm sorry you had to be the one who caught her.

Originally posted by viet_mom
Thanks for giving me the guts to do this. Obviously, I am going to recommend that EVERYONE with childcare get a Nanny Cam, if only to watch how your child spends ONE DAY. Fuck privacy.

I am so sorry. Poor little thing! Best you found out sooner than later.

-TL

[viet_mom]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
...but do what you have to do to make sure this woman isn't alone with children anymore.

Interesting remark. Because at some point, I'm going to have to address this issue and balance the interest of "doing the right thing" with "doing the right thing for the safety of me and my child." You say "do what you have to do to make sure" the Nanny isn't with children anymore. I *could* do a lot of things, including:

(1) hand over the footage to the police department in my small town WHERE HER HUSBAND IS A COP!!!! (how weird is that?)

(2) telephone the reference the Nanny provides (I spoke to this reference before hiring her) and tell her what happened to me in the hopes she will either tell parents who call that she can't give a reference anymore or she can't give a *good* reference anymore. Or perhaps the lady calls the Nanny and says, "Please don't use me as a reference anymore." This all presumes the lady doesn't tell me "I don't know you from Adam; she took care of my kid great, so I'm going to keep giving her a good reference."

(3) look at the local classified ads of parents seeking Nannies and when I see one she may respond to, call them myself and warn them about "you-know-who" if she should answer the ad.

(4) call the local Division of whatever services that handles childcare stuff, but I don't know if they'd have jurisdiction over a private nanny; don't know if you can report your Nanny to them. You can report a parent, but don't know if you can report a Nanny. Anyhow, that place has their hands full already.

(5) tell the Nanny that if she ever applies for a Nanny position again, I will go to the police with the footage. In this way, she is dissuaded not to answer any ads.

Or, I could simply turn over the footage to my town's Police Department (where her husband is a cop and I hear he is a hot head on temporary suspension right now). Any of the above would put Vietbabe and I at risk of retaliation from one or more crazy people. Oh.....and I didn't mention that in the tape of the hellish day, before Vietbabe woke up from her nap, and right after the video shows me leaving the house for the day, the camera shows the Nanny kneeling down and stuffing her face deep into the cushion-seat of an upholstered armchair which she knows the cat always pees on (right on the seat where she stuffed her face) and starts chanting loudly into the cushion all kinds of deranged stuff which I guess are meant to be a prayer but it sounds like she is talking in tongues and only occasionally removing her head from the seat-cushion to shout up in the air "JESUS MY BROTHER!!!!!".

Yep. I kid you not. In a way, it's almost comical to watch it. UNTIL YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN THAT THE BABY MONITOR IS STARTING TO MAKE NOISES AND REALIZE YOUR CHILD IS WAKING UP FROM HER NAP AND WILL BE IN THE HANDS OF CRAZY PENTACOSTAL CAT-PEE SNIFFING LADY AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP IT BECAUSE IT HAPPENED ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

I'm rethinking the whole daycare center thing. There are structured activities there, and lots of workers and other kids. I'm coming to think that the Nanny environment is too conducive to abuse and neglect. There's:

(1) a TV to watch what some consider very exciting shows, a telephone to use, books and mags to read, a full refrigerator and the ability to eat any time of the workday, etc..

and on the other side of the equation there is....

(2) a very uninteresting and repetitive 16 month old who doesn't talk, who you don't love, and who wants to pour fake tea over and over and over and over again.


Which of the two do you think they will pick? Especially when they know that nobody will likely know which one they picked. For those who think most Nanny's combine the two above, are you satisfied with the relative amount of attend paid to (2)?

[i]
I'm rethinking the whole daycare center thing. There are structured activities there, and lots of workers and other kids. I'm coming to think that the Nanny environment is too conducive to abuse and neglect.

I am so sorry you and the babe had to go thru this. For what its worth, I have always preferred center-based care for children too young to accurately report what happens during the day. I had a nanny once, for about 4 weeks, until she did something stupid (not mean or abusive, but careless and unacceptable), and I put the baby in a center. It is not the impersonal, institutional environment some envision. The day care workers might not "love" your child the way you or your family does, but in a good center they love children, and there is just no substitute (IMHO) for the accountability and professionalism of a place where teachers and parents are in and out all day long. Having said that, I've pulled a child from a center, when it became clear that the particular teachers in the particular room were simply inattentive to her personality and development (when they told me at 3 she wasn't yet talking in sentences, which hadn't been true for over a year, I realized pretty quickly that she had no meaningful interaction with them).

As to next steps: the nanny I had that did the stupid thing actually did it in such a way that attracted the attention of the DSS. Through that process, I found out the DSS keeps the report and the investigation results on file for her as a provider, which will at least keep her from ever being licensed to provide child care. It doesn't solve the classified ad problem, but if you instigate a report, it might scare her out of pursuing this as a career.

Good luck, and please don't feel like you are settling for second best if you find a good, caring center for Viet babe.

[pretermitted_child]

Originally posted by viet_mom

(5) tell the Nanny that if she ever applies for a Nanny position again, I will go to the police with the footage. In this way, she is dissuaded not to answer any ads.

Have you checked the laws in your jurisdiction regarding recordings and videotaping? (Some jurisdictions require that recordings must be consented to by both parties.)

Was the Nanny given notice that she would be videotaped or that her actions would be monitored?

As for telling the Nanny that if she ever applies for a position again that you'll make her life a living hell . . . could the Nanny have a cause of action for blackmail? Interference with prospective business relationships? Defamation? And, is the Nanny the type of person who would haul you into court?

[NW Native]

Originally posted by viet_mom
... especially the one whose child had his bunny toy beaten up at the behest of the sitter and said "listen to your child

That was me.
1) I'm truly sorry to hear that there was something to Vietbabe's dislike of babysitter. I was hoping that I was wrong.
2) Vietbabe should be fine. My son turned out fine; I'm the one who's traumatized.
3) You are to be commended for quickly acting on your suspicions

[bilmore]

Originally posted by viet_mom
Interesting remark. Because at some point, I'm going to have to address this issue and balance the interest of "doing the right thing" with "doing the right thing for the safety of me and my child." You say "do what you have to do to make sure" the Nanny isn't with children anymore.

Depends on whether you're speaking of actual physical abuse, or just really, REALLY bad nannying. If it's the former, skip the cops, call social services, and tell them why you skipped the cops. Let them handle it. If there really is anything that can be done about this, they'll know what it is. Insist on confidentiality if you feel more comfortable.

As for centers - we used a center for three kids, and then went to a nanny at some point. It took a few tries to find the right nanny, but when we did, it was a thing of beauty.

But, the center was also great. No dependance on one possible wacko, state-mandated staffing, and generally really nice caregivers, who turned into good friends over the years. We switched to a nanny mostly for cost issues - three kids FT in a center costs. Boy, does it cost.

So, I wouldn't rule out the centers.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by yertle
biglaw boston: 12 weeks paid (and annualized for purposes of computing billable hours for comp year) maternity; this is under short term disability, therefore independent of vacation time; there is a paid and annualized paternity leave as well, but I don't know how long.

You didn't break the board- we just seem to have these long lapses in conversation.

how is everyone?

OK, I gave a faulty summary of ours -- this is what comes from being a male partner, and just doing whatever I feel like. I don't even realize what the policies are.

We have 2 weeks available for anyone with a new kid, and an additional four for the primary caregiver, so with vacation it adds up to 10 weeks of leave. Not the 12 weeks paid advertized by yertle for Boston Biglaw, so there's some variation among Boston Biglaws. We're a Boston/National firm, with Boston as the biggest office but most of our people outside Mass.

Ours does not seem to be under short term disability -- curious if there's something being missed here!

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by viet_mom
Interesting remark. Because at some point, I'm going to have to address this issue and balance the interest of "doing the right thing" with "doing the right thing for the safety of me and my child."

This is a horrible position to be in, and I really feel for you.

But you do have to be careful on the nanny-cam front -- if her husband is a cop, and there is anything questionable about taping without knowledge in your state, I'm ready to bet you'll be pretty roundly harrassed and perhaps even prosecuted while she has no repurcussions.

On the other hand, I'm sure you've already got the "if she ever hurts a kid how will I feel" voice in your head.

I really thing the others who suggested DSS are right -- these people are pretty good at dealing with very difficult situations. The biggest downside is that sometimes you get someone who is just too busy and puts your complaint in the low priority file.

I also think just letting the woman know why she's been fired may help - it lets her know she doesn't get away with this stuff. You don't even have to tell her about the tape, you can just tell her you "understand" she did X and Y, and she can think it's a neighbor or something.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
OK, I gave a faulty summary of ours -- this is what comes from being a male partner, and just doing whatever I feel like. I don't even realize what the policies are.

We have 2 weeks available for anyone with a new kid, and an additional four for the primary caregiver, so with vacation it adds up to 10 weeks of leave. Not the 12 weeks paid advertized by yertle for Boston Biglaw, so there's some variation among Boston Biglaws. We're a Boston/National firm, with Boston as the biggest office but most of our people outside Mass.

Ours does not seem to be under short term disability -- curious if there's something being missed here!

So, if I were to be at your firm and were pregnant and nothing went wrong with the pregnancy, I would have a total of 2.5 months off and that would use up all my vacation for the year (i.e., no taking the new kid to see grandma at Xmas)?

Also, WTF is with the "primary caregiver"? How can anyone working full time at a big law firm characterize themselves as a primary caregiver? Or is that the point?

STD probably kicks in to cover situations like when the doctor puts a mom-to-be on bedrest for a month or two and other stuff where someone actually has health problems that prevent them from working, rather than being used to cover the first month or two after a normal pregnancy and birth.

Note I'm not intending to criticize; it just seems like firms do an awful lot of doubletalk around this stuff.