Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same - Page 39

Tyrone Slothrop · 03-08-2019, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder

The thing I don't know if whether the court/prosecutor can get his sentence reduced for singing after he's sentenced, but obviously the best time for him to fully cooperate is before that.

"was" before that

sebastian_dangerfield · 03-08-2019, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Manafort probably has no leverage in that way anymore because he "cooperated" already with Mueller and Mueller's team decided he was lying. Mueller certainly can't use him as a witness going forward. So Manafort is only useful to Mueller if he is still sitting on something concrete that Mueller can use to build a case. But he's had the chance to cooperate, so he has used up his chances to turn. He has no incentive to turn now because Mueller can't do anything more for him. He has been sentenced in Virginia and the judge in DC found that he lied to Mueller when he "cooperated" before.

I also think your partial pardon idea is nuts. Trump is not about nuance here. If he pardons Manafort it is either (a) to protect himself from something Manafort can do to him, or (b) to send a message to others. Per the above, I don't see (a). If (b), it will be a full pardon.

Prosecutor at yesterday’s sentencing stated Manafort deserved no credit because his “cooperation” gave them nothing they didn’t already know.

If Trump wins in 2020, he can’t fully pardon Manafort. Too controversial. But if Trump only pardons Manafort as to Berman sentence, Manafort will be out in 2021.

Trump can get around controversy by saying Manafort deserves time for tax fraud, but Berman’s sentence in collusion case was part of political witch hunt.

If Trump loses in 2020, everyone gets full pardons.

greatwhitenorthchick · 03-08-2019, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller

The NY Times just published a book review on The Uninhabitable Earth, which is apparently an annotate version of the single most frequently downloaded story in the history of New York Magazine.

Agree with me or not on any issue I've ever posted here, I don't think anyone can accuse me of hyperbole or fear mongering.

The 7,000 word story is positively terrifying.

It is well written, and posits that my 5 and 2 year old granddaughters will be part of a mass extinction event. So much for clean beautiful Kentucky coal.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/...or-humans.html

Some of the science indicates that we're already too late to change the outcome. It is a global version of the "tragedy of the commons." I feel helpless in the face of the size of the problem. Damn.

This appears to be the current US plan to deal with it. https://www.designboom.com/architect...ge-07-30-2018/

The only reason I knew about this is because an associate's boyfriend was part of a team who entered. I will not be living on Mars, but perhaps if they make enough money, your granddaughters can. I'm flip because I lost all hope that anyone with influence cares about saving the Earth years ago.

sebastian_dangerfield · 03-08-2019, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

"was" before that

Manafort has no hope of reduction from DOJ. His leverage on Trump is telling facts that put Trump and family in legal jeopardy in and out of office. This is his pardon insurance. He’s bet everything on Trump honoring a clear but never explicit deal out of fear of what Manafort will do if Trump does not honor the deal.

Manafort also has to worry about the Russians. That’s another explanation for his behavior.

I think Manafort is now totally prepared to do Ellis’s sentence and not Berman’s. Hence, his lawyer’s strange comment about lack of collusion after yesterday’s hearing. Twitter and the media are telecasting messages between Trump and Manafort. You’re watching the negotiation/discussions live.

Tyrone Slothrop · 03-08-2019, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Prosecutor at yesterday’s sentencing stated Manafort deserved no credit because his “cooperation” gave them nothing they didn’t already know.

If Trump wins in 2020, he can’t fully pardon Manafort. Too controversial. Manafort would have to serve another 4 years of what Berman gives him. But if Trump only pardons Manafort as to Bergman sentence, Manafort will be out in 2021.

Trump can get around controversy by saying Manafort deserves time for tax fraud, but Berman’s sentence in collusion case was part of political witch hunt.

If Trump loses in 2020, everyone gets full pardons.

My original question to you was, why would Trump pardon Manafort now, and you are not any closer to having a good answer to that. If Trump makes it to 2020, why on Earth would he pardon Manafort? If he goes to prison and doesn't cause more trouble, why invite the New York AG's office to prosecute him, and drag things up again, which would follow a pardon like day follows night. Trump has no loyalty to anyone except his own family, so you can rule that out.

Tyrone Slothrop · 03-08-2019, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Manafort has no hope of reduction from DOJ. His leverage on Trump is telling facts that put Trump and family in legal jeopardy in and out of office. This is his pardon insurance. He’s bet everything on Trump honoring a clear but never explicit deal out of fear of what Manafort will do if Trump does not honor the deal.

Manafort also has to worry about the Russians. That’s another explanation for his behavior.

I think Manafort is now totally prepared to do Ellis’s sentence and not Berman’s. Hence, his lawyer’s strange comment about lack of collusion after yesterday’s hearing. Twitter and the media are telecasting messages between Trump and Manafort. You’re watching the negotiation/discussions live.

If it's a discussion, what's Trump saying? Agree that Manafort's lawyer would love to get a pardon, and since Mueller has had him nailed seven ways to Sunday that has pretty much been his only hope. But my question was why Trump would want to, and the idea that Manafort is sitting on something that could damage Trump looks less and less likely.

sebastian_dangerfield · 03-08-2019, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

My original question to you was, why would Trump pardon Manafort now, and you are not any closer to having a good answer to that. If Trump makes it to 2020, why on Earth would he pardon Manafort? If he goes to prison and doesn't cause more trouble, why invite the New York AG's office to prosecute him, and drag things up again, which would follow a pardon like day follows night. Trump has no loyalty to anyone except his own family, so you can rule that out.

Because he has to.

The NY AG won’t do shit. That’s blustering.

ETA: But ask yourself why the NY AG is allowing itself to be so politically prostitued. They seem to sense a pardon is coming. And a pardon only comes if Trump has some need to do so.

sebastian_dangerfield · 03-08-2019, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

If it's a discussion, what's Trump saying? Agree that Manafort's lawyer would love to get a pardon, and since Mueller has had him nailed seven ways to Sunday that has pretty much been his only hope. But my question was why Trump would want to, and the idea that Manafort is sitting on something that could damage Trump looks less and less likely.

Because Manafort can offer testimony putting Trump and his kids in further legal jeopardy.

Why would Manafort lie to SC? He’s keeping something as insurance. He couldn’t cough it up to SC because then he’d blow all leverage with Trump. So he made shit up to look like he was giving new info and SC saw through it.

Manafort is 69. He’s calculated Trump is his only hope. Nothing SC could for him would get him out soon enough.

And as to what he has, this man was close to Putin’s people. He’s probably got shit on Trump about which Cohen could only dream.

Icky Thump · 03-08-2019, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller

The NY Times just published a book review on The Uninhabitable Earth, which is apparently an annotate version of the single most frequently downloaded story in the history of New York Magazine.

Agree with me or not on any issue I've ever posted here, I don't think anyone can accuse me of hyperbole or fear mongering.

The 7,000 word story is positively terrifying.

It is well written, and posits that my 5 and 2 year old granddaughters will be part of a mass extinction event. So much for clean beautiful Kentucky coal.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/...or-humans.html

Some of the science indicates that we're already too late to change the outcome. It is a global version of the "tragedy of the commons." I feel helpless in the face of the size of the problem. Damn.

Or you could just #votethanos

Tyrone Slothrop · 03-08-2019, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Because he has to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Because Manafort can offer testimony putting Trump and his kids in further legal jeopardy.

Why would Manafort lie to SC? He’s keeping something as insurance. He couldn’t cough it up to SC because then he’d blow all leverage with Trump. So he made shit up to look like he was giving new info and SC saw through it.

Manafort is 69. He’s calculated Trump is his only hope. Nothing SC could for him would get him out soon enough.

And as to what he has, this man was close to Putin’s people. He’s probably got shit on Trump about which Cohen could only dream.

No, he probably has nothing. At this point Manafort functionally cannot give testimony about anyone, because he has no credibility left. He burned himself by saying he would cooperate with Mueller and then lying. Mueller said he was lying. A federal judge agreed. Unless he is sitting on physical evidence that no one else has, he is not a threat. His testimony is worthless now.

Quote:

The NY AG won’t do shit. That’s blustering.

ETA: But ask yourself why the NY AG is allowing itself to be so politically prostitued. They seem to sense a pardon is coming. And a pardon only comes if Trump has some need to do so.

Don't you think it would make a bunch of NY voters happy to know that the state AG is willing to do what it can to enforce state laws if Trump is going to corrupt the federal laws by pardoning people? That's not prostitution. It doesn't mean they sense a pardon -- it means it's good politics now. And it's not going to happen, because Trump is going to let Manafort rot in prison instead of going out on a limb by pardoning him.

Tyrone Slothrop · 03-09-2019, 04:13 PM

Anyone who hangs around this board might be interested in this post.

LessinSF · 03-10-2019, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

This subject came up last night in a discussion with my husband about fertility options going forward. I think it has to be a consideration for anyone considering having kids.

And y'all have called me a troll for advocating the need for a human kill off.