Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Silly Adder. Satan has many names.

And he taketh a multitude of faces.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Outsourcing a response to Peter Beinart (not sure I would say the same, but I think he says it well, and is directly responsive):

And yet, look how many people push against it. The same doesn't happen in many places, many of which torture and with far more brutality.

And consider what al Qaeda, or ISIS, or ..... you can make your own list .... might do with the resources of the US military at their disposal.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

And yet, look how many people push against it. The same doesn't happen in many places, many of which torture and with far more brutality.

And consider what al Qaeda, or ISIS, or ..... you can make your own list .... might do with the resources of the US military at their disposal.

You can't get much more physically brutal than anal feeding and hydration. And let us not forget that many of those brutal dictators had their torture training at Ft. Benning, GA.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

You can't get much more physically brutal than anal feeding and hydration.

I keep wondering why its described as "feeding" and "hydration" as I don't think there is much nutritional or hydration benefit to this sort of practice, is there?

I mean, this was anal rape. Is it important that it was anal rape with food or water? I guess there's some marginal informational value in those details, but I wonder if it's not outweighed by the failure to mention the rape part.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Adder

I keep wondering why its described as "feeding" and "hydration" as I don't think there is much nutritional or hydration benefit to this sort of practice, is there?

I mean, this was anal rape. Is it important that it was anal rape with food or water? I guess there's some marginal informational value in those details, but I wonder if it's not outweighed by the failure to mention the rape part.

I would like someone to ask Michael Hayden when this procedure has ever been done for medical reasons. Or Dick Cheney.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

You can't get much more physically brutal than anal feeding and hydration. And let us not forget that many of those brutal dictators had their torture training at Ft. Benning, GA.

I disagree with your first point but it's a matter of degree and I really don't want to discuss these disgusting details.

On your second point, some did and some didn't.

You guys can push back on my "we are better than they are" view all you want, but if you really challenge that view if the "they" we are talking about is al Qaeda (which is the genesis of the discussion, given the photo Icky posted), I'd be surprised.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Adder

I keep wondering why its described as "feeding" and "hydration" as I don't think there is much nutritional or hydration benefit to this sort of practice, is there?

I mean, this was anal rape. Is it important that it was anal rape with food or water? I guess there's some marginal informational value in those details, but I wonder if it's not outweighed by the failure to mention the rape part.

It was anal rape, designed to completely humiliate and dominate.

I think that there may be such a thing as rectal hydration, since the lower intestines do absorb water. But not feeding, no.

Basically, Cheney decided to shove hot peppers up a Muslim's ass and call it dinner.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Adder

I keep wondering why its described as "feeding" and "hydration" as I don't think there is much nutritional or hydration benefit to this sort of practice, is there?

I mean, this was anal rape. Is it important that it was anal rape with food or water? I guess there's some marginal informational value in those details, but I wonder if it's not outweighed by the failure to mention the rape part.

To be brutally graphic, which for present purposes I choose to be. The means by which one can be anally fed and/or hydrated is fairly simple. Imagine a colonoscopy that goes even further. Since we are using "enhanced" medical techniques, the "doctor" who administers the procedure probably doesn't employ any anesthetic.

See. It's all really rather simple. Much more so than say, restraining someone for several hours a day while you feed them intravenously, in a freshly inserted line because, when you are trying to starve yourself, the fact that removing the line yourself might cause excess bleeding may not even bother you.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

The means by which one can be anally fed and/or hydrated is fairly simple. Imagine a colonoscopy that goes even further.

I'm not sure this is true as to feeding, but quite honestly I'm already worried about what the IT people will think of my Googling activity today so I'm going to stop researching it.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

I disagree with your first point but it's a matter of degree and I really don't want to discuss these disgusting details.

On your second point, some did and some didn't.

You guys can push back on my "we are better than they are" view all you want, but if you really challenge that view if the "they" we are talking about is al Qaeda (which is the genesis of the discussion, given the photo Icky posted), I'd be surprised.

I'm not so much pushing back on your view that we can and should be better than that, as I am arguing that right now, that view is losing and too many of the people we count on to support it are willing to throw it away in the name of security.

And what, pray tell, makes us better than any totalitarian state the minute we start setting our values aside? If we adopt the tactics of the evildoers, we cease to be different in the one way that matters to the person on the other end of the wire. The jolt doesn't hurt any less. It doesn't leave you any less scared every day that it might happen again. It does still leave you doing little else but figuring out to keep it from happening again. Because you really don't want it to happen again.

As long as we have one single sanctioned act of that kind of conduct, how are we better? Isn't America's true exceptionalism the fact that we alone view our rights to due process and fair play as organic to us as individuals? And if that is the touchstone of what makes us "different," what happens when we cease to be different?

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

I'm not sure this is true as to feeding, but quite honestly I'm already worried about what the IT people will think of my Googling activity today so I'm going to stop researching it.

As long as it gets in the stomach, it will be processed. But as I noted earlier, we are both in agreement that there was never any intent to nourish these men; it was meant to hurt and degrade them

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

Isn't America's true exceptionalism the fact that we alone view our rights to due process and fair play as organic to us as individuals? And if that is the touchstone of what makes us "different," what happens when we cease to be different?

I would have agreed with your first sentence -- all men are created equal, not all citizens -- but have been struck by how many of the conservatives in my Facebook feed reject that premise. If you're not a citizen, f*ck you and you have no rights. Also, freedom comes from those who serve in our military, and the rest of us don't appreciate that.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

I disagree with your first point but it's a matter of degree and I really don't want to discuss these disgusting details.

On your second point, some did and some didn't.

You guys can push back on my "we are better than they are" view all you want, but if you really challenge that view if the "they" we are talking about is al Qaeda (which is the genesis of the discussion, given the photo Icky posted), I'd be surprised.

Well, we are better than them, but in two senses. We are better morally, but we are also better in the sense of being more capable and having better tools and technology, so when we do have a moral screw up, we can screw up on a scale they, today, can only imagine.

So, yeah, we are better. Much better.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

To be brutally graphic, which for present purposes I choose to be. The means by which one can be anally fed and/or hydrated is fairly simple. Imagine a colonoscopy that goes even further. Since we are using "enhanced" medical techniques, the "doctor" who administers the procedure probably doesn't employ any anesthetic.

See. It's all really rather simple. Much more so than say, restraining someone for several hours a day while you feed them intravenously, in a freshly inserted line because, when you are trying to starve yourself, the fact that removing the line yourself might cause excess bleeding may not even bother you.

You see, I have little trouble imagining any of this, since back when I was dealing with my nasty medical issues I had the opportunity to learn how to do self-enemas with various substances. Some of those substances were pretty substantial. This is torture.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

This is a pretty powerful piece.

https://paw.princeton.edu/issues/201...dex.xml?page=2

TM