Keeping it civil instead of returning to our dark ways

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
So, he's opposed, but doesn't think that he should affirmatively do anything about it? You realize that his campaign and that Florida article are emphasizing the "opposed" part because they are taking the gay part of their constituency for granted, right? That was really the underlying point of the article in Florida.

Are you saying that in order to oppose something, you must be in favor of amending the US Constitution (or passing a federal statute) to ban that something?

That's pretty fucked up.

There's any number of things that I'm opposed to -- and things I'm in favor of -- that I think should be regulated, if at all, at the state or even local level.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
All I'm saying is, he says he's opposed, but until he really spells that out to say
a.) I'm opposed to myself being gayly married;
b.) I'm opposed to my kids being gayly married;
c.) I'm opposed to anyone in my community/state being gayly married; and/or
d.) I'm opposed to Americans being gayly married,
I think he means it in a different way than he intends it to be taken by the simple folks**.

How about: "If I was a state legislator I would vote against allowing gay marriage in my state, but I don't think that the federal government needs to address this, and I certainly don't think this arises to a level at which the Constitution needs to be monkeyed with."???

'cause, that's pretty much his message.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
The only rallies I've ever gone to were peace rallies, and then only as an observer*. So no, I'm not sure you've got this thing down yet. (ETA) That said, I think I know why you usually don't understand what I'm saying, but I'll tell you after the election. All I'm saying is, he says he's opposed, but until he really spells that out to say
a.) I'm opposed to myself being gayly married;
b.) I'm opposed to my kids being gayly married;
c.) I'm opposed to anyone in my community/state being gayly married; and/or
d.) I'm opposed to Americans being gayly married,
I think he means it in a different way than he intends it to be taken by the simple folks**.

Hello

I do get it. And that is a valid allegation. People who are impassioned or fervent about their views do see the word "opposition" differently than people like me. Kerry may be exploiting his oppositionto gay marriage to lead those sort of people to believe he opposes it the same way they would. But thats not his fault any more than its Bush's fault when poor people vote for him believing they'll do better with the GOP in charge, and he cynically lets them believe it, and worse, actively perpetuates the lie.

But i do see your point.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Are you saying that in order to oppose something, you must be in favor of amending the US Constitution (or passing a federal statute) to ban that something?

That's pretty fucked up.

There's any number of things that I'm opposed to -- and things I'm in favor of -- that I think should be regulated, if at all, at the state or even local level.

I agree that it would be pretty fucked up, if that were what I was saying. What I'm saying is, if he wants to emphasize his "opposition", perhaps the vast-right-wing-media-conspiracy could have pinned him on exactly what this means.

Aside from him being opposed to the Supreme Court of MA legislating gay marriage from the bench, does anyone else have any idea what he means by opposed?

Seriously, its pretty funny how easily Ty can throw that out there and have y'all marching in tune ldown the yellow brick road like Kerry's the freaking Pied Piper.

Which is to say, all I'm saying is that you guys are guessing what he means by "opposed" just like I am. At the very least, we know he ain't completely opposed, but we don't know exactly what the nature of his opposition to it is, and its not like the Amen corner ever bothered to ask.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
But that doesn't mean he's against gay marriage. In fact, he says he's opposed, but he's all in favor of state's being able to legalize it, and... see the rest of your quote below:



Does the answer to this question depend on what the definition of "opposed" is? Because the evidence is clear that 1.)he says he's opposed, 2.)but is in fact opposed to opposing it and in favor of allowing it to be legalized.

It must be of great comfort that at least you find yourself terribly clever.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I do get it. And that is a valid allegation. . . .

But i do see your point.

I don't even know who you are anymore.

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by baltassoc
I'd find this much more convincing if it didn't apply equally to the other side of the aisle. As it is, however, I thnk we're going to have to agree that Federalism these days is a red herring.

Never said it wasn't (dude, I'm one of the indies, remember?). "The G should push all this welfare and education spending down to the private sector, so we'll remedy this by continuing to take all your money and distributing it to private [religious] charities to spend"? "The G should let states regulate moral issues like abortion, but shouldn't let states regulate moral issues like recreational drug use"? "The G should shove your money at all sorts of special interests"? We agree.

BR(admittedly, though, the Repubs have of late been less mealy-mouthed and obfuscating about it)C

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by taxwonk
It must be of great comfort that at least you find yourself terribly clever.

Well, between this and maybe telling us what Kerry means by "opposed", are you saying I should have learned to expect this?

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Knowing what not to say, and to be concise in what one does say, is actually a good indicator of intelligence.

Precisely. I suggest repeating this to yourself each time you think of posting.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Precisely. I suggest repeating this to yourself each time you think of posting.

W-A-T-E-R...........

[Watchtower]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
And Watchtower must be standing over my shoulder, because I actually had to erase the reference to Catholic priests ....

I have a good relationship with someone very knowledgable.

And, from what I hear, a simple message to you is in order: Repent, and you will be saved!

Oh, and also, please vote for Kerry.

[Watchtower]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Well, between this and maybe telling us what Kerry means by "opposed", are you saying I should have learned to expect this?

Hmmm. You seem to be struggling with the concept of "opposition".

Opposed can mean (1) "vote against" ("he opposed the bill"), (2) "seek to prevent" ("he opposed his daughter dating Hello") or (3) "the opposite of" (as in, "Hello, do you have opposable thumbs?").

In this case, I believe Kerry's announced position fits both (1) and (2).

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
W-A-T-E-R...........

I see you forgot to repeat it.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I don't even know who you are anymore.

I'm just giving the old college effortv toward trying to be as open minded as possible and take into account all views. He does have a point on this issue. The right wingers view being opposed to something as being committed to killing it, burning it and never speaking of it again.

By noting this frighteningly intolerant vein which runs through all right wing ideology, SHFM actually underscores my point that the right wing is tied to way too many crazies.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Watchtower
Hmmm. You seem to be struggling with the concept of "opposition".

Opposed can mean (1) "vote against" ("he opposed the bill"), (2) "seek to prevent" ("he opposed his daughter dating Hello") or (3) "the opposite of" (as in, "Hello, do you have opposable thumbs?").

In this case, I believe Kerry's announced position fits both (1) and (2).

Aren't you the kidder.
Regarding #1, I think you are reading even that into his words;
Regarding #2, I think you are reading even that into his words;
Regarding #3, this is the sort of murkiness he left us with.

Instead of guessing, can you check with your Guy and get back to us?

Hello