"I'm GGG and I approve this message."

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
How does smoking dope actually affect anyone else? And by "affect" I include "force others to pay more for your failure to pay taxes".

That was an accident. A half-thought I edited above.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by taxwonk
No.

I think it is moral and legal to minimize one's taxes under the law, including making a good faith argument for the extension of or a change in the interpretation of law, provided the latter is disclosed.

I think it is immoral and illegal to engage in acts of fraud or deception, including the willful and knowing concealment of income, to evade the payment of taxes on one's income.

I think the latter is not only illegal but also immoral because it (i) imposes upon others the cost of making up for the lost revenue; (ii) violates the social compact that we all live in a democratic society and we agree to bear the costs of that society for the mutual and interdepndent benefit of society as a whole; and (iii) every criminal act undertaken because one feels one is above a particular law because it is "wrong" weakens the system of laws that holds our society together in an orderly and predictable fashion.

I understand and agree. That stuff is wrong when we do it, but not when Mitt Romney does it, because he'll create jobs with the money he doesn't give to the government.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I understand and agree. That stuff is wrong when we do it, but not when Mitt Romney does it, because he'll create jobs with the money he doesn't give to the government.

Are you saying Obama or Clinton will create jobs with the money that they take for the government? Because of the two dubious propositions, that seems even less likely.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Are you saying your position is based on each of i, ii, and iii being fulfilled, or would anyone one of those criteria or combination of two be sufficient? Because if iii alone is sufficient, you have found 90% of society immoral for a variety of smaller crimes, from speeding to getting baked.

My positioin is based on all three. I don't worry about things like getting baked being immoral or moral. I don't care and I doubt very much God does, either.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Are you saying Obama or Clinton will create jobs with the money that they take for the government? Because of the two dubious propositions, that seems even less likely.

I think you are exactly right that Bush's economic stimulus plan will be an expensive failure.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by taxwonk
My positioin is based on all three. I don't worry about things like getting baked being immoral or moral. I don't care and I doubt very much God does, either.

I don't know. If he can get all excited about onanism, I think he could get excited about a lot of stuff.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Are you saying your position is based on each of i, ii, and iii being fulfilled, or would anyone one of those criteria or combination of two be sufficient? Because if iii alone is sufficient, you have found 90% of society immoral for a variety of smaller crimes, from speeding to getting baked.

I would go even further. Wonk's (iii), the idea that violating the law breaks down social cohesion and the laws that bind us together, may be a good thing. Too much social cohesion and law abidingness would leave us all living in Japan, and I prefer America.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I think you are exactly right that Bush's economic stimulus plan will be an expensive failure.

I don't know what you're talking about.

I am familiar with the Pelosi/House stimulus package, however.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I think you are exactly right that Bush's economic stimulus plan will be an expensive failure.

GGG --

Just a friendly reminder that we are working hard to be nicer here on a personal level. I have brochures.

S_A_M

(Smellin' trouble a'brewin.)

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I think you are exactly right that Bush's economic stimulus plan will be an expensive failure.

It is quite amusing, however, that Democrats agree the best way to stimulate the economy in the short term is to give people back taxes they've paid.

Might the better way be to decrease spending on domestic entitlements and pork and end that silly war and let the people you're giving that money back to have it all along?

I know, I know... But like I said, every cynic is a hopeless, naive idealist at heart.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I would go even further. Wonk's (iii), the idea that violating the law breaks down social cohesion and the laws that bind us together, may be a good thing. Too much social cohesion and law abidingness would leave us all living in Japan, and I prefer America.

Well, I think his point is that social cohesion on matters of funding for the govt that ostensibly manages the country is different from social cohesion on personal social issues.

But I'm with you. The govt is not subject to creative destruction, which causes it to operate like cancer, with its "cells" replicating without any check.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
It is quite amusing, however, that Democrats agree the best way to stimulate the economy in the short term is to give people back taxes they've paid.

Might the better way be to decrease spending on domestic entitlements and pork and end that silly war and let the people you're giving that money back to have it all along?

I know, I know... But like I said, every cynic is a hopeless, naive idealist at heart.

Indeed, one has to laugh. Give one to Bush, zero to sound economic policy, with the Dems just going awol. What were they thinking?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
GGG --

Just a friendly reminder that we are working hard to be nicer here on a personal level. I have brochures.

S_A_M

(Smellin' trouble a'brewin.)

I clicked on that link you sent. It was a porno cite.

Can you resend the brochure link?

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
But I'm with you. [GGG]

Doesn't that worry you both?

S_A_M

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
The govt's too big and there's no voting to be done to restrain that. This nation was built on the notion of people not paying taxes when they felt they were wrong and the political processes would not assist them. Considering all the pork in bills and DC's operations its hardly a leap to say we are being taxed without representation.

Most government spending is for the military, social security, medicare/medicaid, and interest. People -- citizens, voters -- like this spending and want it to continue. Those who complain about pork and waste and imply that it makes a big difference to your taxes are cynical, misinformed, or both.