A Forum for Grinches and Ho-Ho-Hoes

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Depends on how bad you need it, I suppose.

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/tab...n_figures.html

eta: "The first Liberty ship commissioned, prior to Pearl Harbor, took 244 days to build. Henry J. Kaiser, whose shipyards built one-third of all America's ships in World War II, cut that to 72 days in May of 1942. By August of that year, construction time was down to 46 days. As publicity stunt, one of his shipyards built a ship fron scratch in five days. "

http://ks.essortment.com/libertyshipsme_pbv.htm

Good, you're back! Quickly now- Google how many pages there were of FAR in 1942 and then again by 2000.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Good, you're back! Quickly now- Google how many pages there were of FAR in 1942 and then again by 2000.

I will when you google this for me: Did Rumsfeld blame his failure to adequately equip our troops on red tape?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I will when you google this for me: Did Rumsfeld blame his failure to adequately equip our troops on red tape?

He's not a buck passer. But who's at fault?

I would guess the blame would go back to budgets 10 years or so ago. A pair of Mass. Senators were cutting defense spending like madmen.

That's enough hints- now go Google!

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
He's not a buck passer.

Funny. Knee-jerk liberals like Bill Kristol disagree.

• Contrast the magnificent performance of our soldiers with the arrogant buck-passing of Rumsfeld. Begin with the rest of his answer to Spec. Thomas Wilson of the Tennessee Army National Guard:
  
  "Since the Iraq conflict began, the Army has been pressing ahead to produce the armor necessary at a rate that they believe--it's a greatly expanded rate from what existed previously, but a rate that they believe is the rate that is all that can be accomplished at this moment. I can assure you that General Schoomaker and the leadership in the Army and certainly General Whitcomb are sensitive to the fact that not every vehicle has the degree of armor that would be desirable for it to have, but that they're working at it at a good clip."
  
  So the Army is in charge. "They" are working at it. Rumsfeld? He happens to hang out in the same building: "I've talked a great deal about this with a team of people who've been working on it hard at the Pentagon. . . . And that is what the Army has been working on." Not "that is what we have been working on." Rather, "that is what the Army has been working on." The buck stops with the Army.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
He's not a buck passer. I would guess the blame would go back to budgets 10 years or so ago. A pair of Mass. Senators were cutting defense spending like madmen.

That's enough hints- now go Goolge!

Since you're googling, I wonder what sort of defense programs the Sens. from Mass. wanted to decrease funding on. I wonder if armor for humvees was on their agenda, or if they were more concerned with cutting back on expensive, irrelevant systems designed for the cold war. But all this really distracts from our main point of discussion here - Rumsfeld's callous disregard for the lives of American soldiers. Explain why the humvees didn't have armor again?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Funny. Knee-jerk liberals like Bill Kristol disagree.

• Contrast the magnificent performance of our soldiers with the arrogant buck-passing of Rumsfeld. Begin with the rest of his answer to Spec. Thomas Wilson of the Tennessee Army National Guard:
  
  "Since the Iraq conflict began, the Army has been pressing ahead to produce the armor necessary at a rate that they believe--it's a greatly expanded rate from what existed previously, but a rate that they believe is the rate that is all that can be accomplished at this moment. I can assure you that General Schoomaker and the leadership in the Army and certainly General Whitcomb are sensitive to the fact that not every vehicle has the degree of armor that would be desirable for it to have, but that they're working at it at a good clip."
  
  So the Army is in charge. "They" are working at it. Rumsfeld? He happens to hang out in the same building: "I've talked a great deal about this with a team of people who've been working on it hard at the Pentagon. . . . And that is what the Army has been working on." Not "that is what we have been working on." Rather, "that is what the Army has been working on." The buck stops with the Army.

What's with you guys? You all resolve to dumb down your arguments so SS can seem more like an equal member of the team?

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
What's with you guys? You all resolve to dumb down your arguments so SS can seem more like an equal member of the team?

I'll admit I'm a little slow to understand your willingness to defend all actions of the administration, no matter the cost. I'm not sure whether it's the sophistication of your arguments or if it's just difficult to understand what you're saying while you've got Rumsfeld's nuts in your mouth.

[sgtclub]

• WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush on Monday tapped two former presidents - his father, President George H.W. Bush, and his predecessor, President Clinton - to lead a nationwide, private fund-raising campaign to help victims of the Asian tsunamis.
  
  "I ask every American to contribute as they are able to do so," Bush said in the White House's Roosevelt Room, the two former presidents at his side.
  
  Clinton and the first President Bush are to lead an effort to encourage the American people and businesses to support relief and reconstruction activities in areas devastated by the tsunamis, the president said. He also ordered that American flags fly at half-staff all week in sympathy for "the victims of a great tragedy," particularly the many thousands of dead and orphaned children.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050103/D87CNQ900.html

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sgtclub

• WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush on Monday tapped two former presidents - his father, President George H.W. Bush, and his predecessor, President Clinton - to lead a nationwide, private fund-raising campaign to help victims of the Asian tsunamis.
  
  "I ask every American to contribute as they are able to do so," Bush said in the White House's Roosevelt Room, the two former presidents at his side.
  
  Clinton and the first President Bush are to lead an effort to encourage the American people and businesses to support relief and reconstruction activities in areas devastated by the tsunamis, the president said. He also ordered that American flags fly at half-staff all week in sympathy for "the victims of a great tragedy," particularly the many thousands of dead and orphaned children.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050103/D87CNQ900.html

Depends on whether he gives Clinton more than a mop and bus fare to Sri Lanka.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I'll admit I'm a little slow to understand your willingness to defend all actions of the administration, no matter the cost. I'm not sure whether it's the sophistication of your arguments or if it's just difficult to understand what you're saying while you've got Rumsfeld's nuts in your mouth.

If I thought you were speaking literally, I'd try to scare Hank by posting something like, "Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace dead in murder-suicide pact; distraught Chauncey Billups leaves the NBA to become Russian Orthodox monk."

[Tyrone Slothrop]

More on the island and the tsunami here. The skinny:

• "Favorable ocean topography minimized the tsunami’s impact on the atoll. Diego Garcia is part of the Chagos Archipelago, situated on the southernmost part of the Chagos-Laccadive Ridge. To the east lies the Chagos Trench, a 400 mile long, underwater canyon that ranges in depth from less than 1,00 meters below the surface to depths that plunge to over 5,000 meters. It is one of the deepest regions of the Indian Ocean.
  Diego Garcia is located to the west of Chagos Trench, which runs north and south. The depth of the Chagos Trench and grade to the shores does not allow for tsunamis to build before passing the atoll. The result of the earthquake was seen as a tidal surge estimated at six feet."

Six feet is still higher than the average elevation of the island, but maybe it was low tide.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by sgtclub
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050103/D87CNQ900.html

Yup. It's a bipartisan effort to encourage private donations. I don't really think that this is what you would like "count" to mean here, but it's an encouraging step nonetheless in raising funds to help, and in promoting Americans as a generous people.

FWIW, others have noted that the dynamic of calibrating the public response very badly in the beginning and trying to catch up later is not unusual for this Administration.

• President Bush's initial, halting response to the Indian Ocean tsunami catastrophe, followed within days by strong expressions of concern and decisive action, spotlighted a governing style that sometimes finds its stride only after stumbling at the gate.
  
  This seems especially true when Bush is confronted with a cataclysmic event and must improvise quickly — as with the Dec. 26 tsunami or the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
  
  "The pattern we tend to see is an administration that quite often ends up doing the right thing, even though their initial judgments and first reactions are often wrong and short-sighted," said Charles Cook, a Washington-based political analyst and publisher of the Cook Political Report.
  
  Slow to speak out, Bush first offered $15 million in financial aid, then $35 million. But now, having upped the aid package to $350 million and dispatched both Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and Bush's brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, to survey relief efforts, the president may capitalize on an opportunity to provide world leadership and improve his image among Muslims opposed to the Iraq war. Many of the tsunami victims are Muslim.
  
  The president's decision to send his brother to the region was "about as strong a signal of personal concern and intent to help as Bush could send without going himself," said Bruce Buchanan, a University of Texas historian.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Depends on whether he gives Clinton more than a mop and bus fare to Sri Lanka.

Tens of thousands of homeless hungry girls? I'd make that fucker put on a chastity belt before I gave him the airplane tickets.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by taxwonk
I disagree with your basic premise. The money is being spent for the benefit of taxpayers. If you truly belienve that we gain more by taking lives than saving them, then there is nothing to discuss. On the other hand, if you believe that one of the basic tenets of a civilzed society is the preservation of life, then disaster relief is by definition a more defensible use of taxpayer dollars than spending to overthrow a government, occupy a country and change its social and political system at a huge cost in both American and foreign lives.

You bring new meaning to the term "bleeding heart."

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Gattigap
FWIW, others have noted that the dynamic of calibrating the public response very badly in the beginning and trying to catch up later is not unusual for this Administration.

You're really not being fair to Bush. The initial chintzy response to the tsunami was not a result of bad judgment. There just weren't enough dollars being printed. It's a matter of physics.