Cars and Other Driving Machines

[Buzzkill]

Hi kids. Long-time lurker, first-time poster here (and no, I am not a Penske sock).

I have a small automotive dilemma. I am pretty sure I know the answer already, but you never know.

Background: I am driving a lightly used BMW 540 (a 2000 E39 with the M package, for you Bimmerphiles) at the moment and am pretty darn happy with it. It's had a couple of the standard 540 problems (now fixed) but has otherwise behaved itself admirably. Goes way faster than sane people ought to and carries 4 people just for fun.

Anyway, last week I am driving down the alley behind my house and one of my neighbors is out washing his car. I'd seen it peeking out of his garage before, so I knew it was also an E39. Turns out that it is an M5, dark bluish-black with a caramel-colored leather interior and all of the goodies. It was pretty freakin' sweet, and I said so.

Turns out, he is thinking about selling it. It is a 2000 model with (get this) 18,000 miles on it. He keeps it garaged and covered. Drives it maybe once a month. It is spotless inside and out. Still smells like a new car. No mechanical problems with it (so he says--and I asked him about the standard M5 problems).

Hence the dilemma: I have a perfectly fine car--maybe the best 4 door sedan out there but for the M5 (although reasonable minds may differ). The M5 is a beast. Drinks gas like a Hummer, and goes like stink. The only thing that might save me from license-endangering trouble with it is the lousy SoCal traffic. Despite the fact that the last thing I need is a potentially finicky quasi-super car in my garage, I am thinking that if I can get him to take $40k for it (which is probably on the low end, but supportable with NADA numbers), I'd be dumb not to buy this thing.

Anybody want to try to talk me out it?

[Flinty_McFlint]

Originally posted by Buzzkill
Hi kids. Long-time lurker, first-time poster here (and no, I am not a Penske sock).

I have a small automotive dilemma. I am pretty sure I know the answer already, but you never know.

Background: I am driving a lightly used BMW 540 (a 2000 E39 with the M package, for you Bimmerphiles) at the moment and am pretty darn happy with it. It's had a couple of the standard 540 problems (now fixed) but has otherwise behaved itself admirably. Goes way faster than sane people ought to and carries 4 people just for fun.

Anyway, last week I am driving down the alley behind my house and one of my neighbors is out washing his car. I'd seen it peeking out of his garage before, so I knew it was also an E39. Turns out that it is an M5, dark bluish-black with a caramel-colored leather interior and all of the goodies. It was pretty freakin' sweet, and I said so.

Turns out, he is thinking about selling it. It is a 2000 model with (get this) 18,000 miles on it. He keeps it garaged and covered. Drives it maybe once a month. It is spotless inside and out. Still smells like a new car. No mechanical problems with it (so he says--and I asked him about the standard M5 problems).

Hence the dilemma: I have a perfectly fine car--maybe the best 4 door sedan out there but for the M5 (although reasonable minds may differ). The M5 is a beast. Drinks gas like a Hummer, and goes like stink. The only thing that might save me from license-endangering trouble with it is the lousy SoCal traffic. Despite the fact that the last thing I need is a potentially finicky quasi-super car in my garage, I am thinking that if I can get him to take $40k for it (which is probably on the low end, but supportable with NADA numbers), I'd be dumb not to buy this thing.

Anybody want to try to talk me out it?

I love the M5. Love it. Love the e39 540i too. I would never talk someone out of buying a beast, which is the common nickname M5 owners use for their cars. I know this one only has 18,000 miles on it, but $40k seems a bit too much for a 2000. The 2000 model year had a lot of well-documented problems, all of which you can research on roadfly.com or m5board.com. Actually, the fact that it its a 2000 and only has 18,000 miles on it would kind of worry me more than a normal amount of mileage for that year--you're now probably out of warranty and it's never really been driven as a daily driver. That said, if you could get it for $35k or less, it might be good. You should keep in mind that the M5 market isn't that great right now for sellers, and once the E60 M5 starts hitting the shores, the prices will drop more, and perhaps more stock will become available. I'm personally hoping to pick up a 2001-2002 M5 sometime in 2006. Check your local craigslist, ebay and get a better sense of your market. Also remember that it is a real real real expensive car to maintain and fix, especially out of warranty. Good luck!

[Buzzkill]

Dammit! I am the one who's supposed to be raining on OTHER peoples' parades. Thanks for the input though.

I actually don't know how much I could get the car for--we're still sort of tangoing around that point. The current owner is a retiree, and I thought I could get a reeeeeeeally good deal from him. Then I talked with him some more and realized that he is a BMW enthusiast, not just someone who bought the most expensive thing they sell because he could (i.e., he knows what he's got).

Edmunds suggests a price of about $35, KBB has it for $42 in private party sale, and NADA has it for about $40. I haven't been able to find a good point of comparison around here (2000 models all have more miles on them; the ones with comparable mileage are newer). For comparable miles, I've seen '02s and '03s, all of which are listed in the high $40s to high $50s. Dunno what they'd actually go for. The only way I can really justify (to the little voice in my head...a/k/a the wife) getting a new anything is if I can get it for a song.

Just curious--what do you think would be a good price for the thing? $35? I don't want him to laugh at me, but I wouldn't want to overpay either. Need to save money for the repair fund.

I am a habitue of the BMW boards over on Roadfly and have checked out the common problems. The 540 has introduced me to the joys of expensive repairs, but I have no doubt that an M5 is a whole nother ball of wax. Given how complex that motor is, I assume that there is nothing under there that costs less than $1k to fix. My mechanics would love me!

Anyway, the guy says that the only problem his has ever really had was oil consumption but that you need to drive over 100 regularly and for sustained periods to have an issue there. Obviously, if I was going to proceed, I'd take it over to my friendly neighborhood indie shop (who also work on my car) for a check-up.

I know I am hearing the same siren song that guys who buy boats hear. Maybe I should just let my mechanics (who are Dinan guys) soup my car up a bit and be done with it.

[Alex_de_Large]

Originally posted by Buzzkill
Dammit! I am the one who's supposed to be raining on OTHER peoples' parades. Thanks for the input though.

I actually don't know how much I could get the car for--we're still sort of tangoing around that point. The current owner is a retiree, and I thought I could get a reeeeeeeally good deal from him. Then I talked with him some more and realized that he is a BMW enthusiast, not just someone who bought the most expensive thing they sell because he could (i.e., he knows what he's got).

Edmunds suggests a price of about $35, KBB has it for $42 in private party sale, and NADA has it for about $40. I haven't been able to find a good point of comparison around here (2000 models all have more miles on them; the ones with comparable mileage are newer). For comparable miles, I've seen '02s and '03s, all of which are listed in the high $40s to high $50s. Dunno what they'd actually go for. The only way I can really justify (to the little voice in my head...a/k/a the wife) getting a new anything is if I can get it for a song.

Just curious--what do you think would be a good price for the thing? $35? I don't want him to laugh at me, but I wouldn't want to overpay either. Need to save money for the repair fund.

I am a habitue of the BMW boards over on Roadfly and have checked out the common problems. The 540 has introduced me to the joys of expensive repairs, but I have no doubt that an M5 is a whole nother ball of wax. Given how complex that motor is, I assume that there is nothing under there that costs less than $1k to fix. My mechanics would love me!

Anyway, the guy says that the only problem his has ever really had was oil consumption but that you need to drive over 100 regularly and for sustained periods to have an issue there. Obviously, if I was going to proceed, I'd take it over to my friendly neighborhood indie shop (who also work on my car) for a check-up.

I know I am hearing the same siren song that guys who buy boats hear. Maybe I should just let my mechanics (who are Dinan guys) soup my car up a bit and be done with it.

I don't have much to add to this discussion, other than to express envy at the beautiful quandry in which you find yourself. As for whether you should buy the M5, if you can afford it, I don't see a downside. it's is even more rare than the 540i, and you know how fast it is. Plus, the caramel leather is to die for.

[Buzzkill]

Tell me about it. I sat in the car, and although the interior has all the same buttons, etc. that mine does, everything in there is just..."better." The dash is leather, the headliner is alcantara, the parking brake has wood veneer on it. The seats are like a brand new baseball glove (but not freakishly orange like the alcantara seats in the Volvo S60R). Everything you touch in the cockpit is top notch. *Sigh*

I am not sure that I have any business even thinking about owning an M5, humble wage slave that I am. When I hear $4,000 to fix the hoozit and $2,500 to fix the whatzit and the "put in a $25 liter of the special BMW oil every time you fill up or the $25,000 engine will fall out," I get nervous. I am not even sure I ought to be driving a 540, but I got a really good deal on it last year at CarMax (which is, BTW, a surprisingly decent place to buy or sell a used car).

Then again, when I put my foot into it on the on-ramp, I forget all about those repair bills.

[Alex_de_Large]

Does anyone use/subscribe to OnStar? We recently purchased a car that has the hardware, and I am considering the base-bones safety-security package with airbag deployment warnings and theft recovery, for about $16 per month. Any thoughts?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Alex_de_Large
Does anyone use/subscribe to OnStar? We recently purchased a car that has the hardware, and I am considering the base-bones safety-security package with airbag deployment warnings and theft recovery, for about $16 per month. Any thoughts?

I hope, for your sake, that it's a Saab or a VW.

I don't have it, but it's struck me that's about the only reason to have the service. But what are the instances in which it's likely to come in handy? 1) You have to be incapactitated by the accident; 2) there has to be cell-phone service; 3) the accident has to take place where you won't soon be seen.

Seems the odds of that are pretty low, unless you drive off hours in marginally rural (but not too rural) areas, or you drive off a bridge.

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I hope, for your sake, that it's a Saab or a VW.

I don't have it, but it's struck me that's about the only reason to have the service. But what are the instances in which it's likely to come in handy? 1) You have to be incapactitated by the accident; 2) there has to be cell-phone service; 3) the accident has to take place where you won't soon be seen.

Seems the odds of that are pretty low, unless you drive off hours in marginally rural (but not too rural) areas, or you drive off a bridge.

A few years ago, we were driving home from Monterey in a brand new Z3 (1 week old) when the fuel injectors decided to puke. We were in the neighborhood of the middle of fucking nowhere. On Star or BMW assist would have been nice. Roadside assistance wants to know where you are. "MMmm, near some corn," is not specific enough for them. Sure, if you had known you were going to break down, you would have paid attention to the mile markers.

Otherwise, we have the BMW assist for free for a year and never used it.

If you haven't done so already, you may want to check out the M5 board and get thoughts from the members as to what would be a good price for the car. That would be here: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin

The folks on that board are extraordinarily knowledgeable and helpful, and are very willing to give thoughts on prices, etc. They can also advise you as to what issues to look for, things to check, etc. I find it to be far more user friendly than the roadfly board. While still subject to the occasional flame-fest, it is typically more "adult" than the roadfly board.

By the by, I think the dark blue-black color that you're describing is Carbon Black. Or, as it's known in my house, Carbon "impossible to keep clean for more than 15 seconds" Black. It looks spectacular when it's clean, but shows swirl marks like crazy. I feel like I should own stock in Zaino. . .

Feel free to email me at permanent_establishment@yahoo.com if you want to chat about the car.

To translate:

Volkswagen ABS electronic control module sh!t the bed.

Short story:
'99 Passat 1.8T - Probable ECM failure. Known problem, recalled in Jettas, not yet recalled in Passats. VW won't do a damn thing until the Feds make them (like they did in the Jetta). Brakes (but not ABS) work while the light is on. Dealer refused to quote a repair price (just as well with me for a variety of reasons). Anybody have any leads on how to get this thing fixed?

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I hope, for your sake, that it's a Saab or a VW.

I don't have it, but it's struck me that's about the only reason to have the service. But what are the instances in which it's likely to come in handy? 1) You have to be incapactitated by the accident; 2) there has to be cell-phone service; 3) the accident has to take place where you won't soon be seen.

Seems the odds of that are pretty low, unless you drive off hours in marginally rural (but not too rural) areas, or you drive off a bridge.

My parents ran out of gas in an X5 last winter about 15 miles outside of Vernon, Texas in the middle of the night. The BMW equivilant was fairly useless because the guy on the other end couldn't find a local tow truck within 100 miles to send out to them. My dad ultimately had to hitchhike into town, buy some gas and hitch another ride back to the car.

I do know someone who swears by the Mercedes equvilent. She sort of uses it as her personal mapquest, including asking the guy on the other end where good restaurants might be in random small towns.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Seems the odds of that are pretty low, unless you drive off hours in marginally rural (but not too rural) areas, or you drive off a bridge.

I have been waiting for Penske to show up since you posted this.

[pony_trekker]

Originally posted by Alex_de_Large
Does anyone use/subscribe to OnStar? We recently purchased a car that has the hardware, and I am considering the base-bones safety-security package with airbag deployment warnings and theft recovery, for about $16 per month. Any thoughts?

I have used it a few times in rentals, but I think those were the full-blown On Star service.

It has ranged from great (giving me tips to a good fish place in Devil Hill, NC in the off-ceason) to bad (telling me the airport was south instead of north)

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Alex_de_Large
Does anyone use/subscribe to OnStar? We recently purchased a car that has the hardware, and I am considering the base-bones safety-security package with airbag deployment warnings and theft recovery, for about $16 per month. Any thoughts?

I have a friend who got a free year of OnStar when he purchased his Suburban and he wouldn't stop talking about how great it was. I think he particularly liked the hands-free telephone features, but also the directions service and the unlocking service. Fortunately, he's never had to use the emergency services.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by baltassoc
I have a friend who got a free year of OnStar when he purchased his Suburban and he wouldn't stop talking about how great it was. I think he particularly liked the hands-free telephone features, but also the directions service and the unlocking service. Fortunately, he's never had to use the emergency services.

Just make sure it's active and paid up in RT's 'burban.