General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by OscarCrease
Also, my impression of Redwood City from driving around was that for every house with an M3 and Range Rover in the driveway there was another with a still in the backyard and something jacked up on cinderblocks in the driveway. Just a bad first impression?

No, that's accurate. But the question is whether it's relevant. Few towns on the Peninsula are without such neighborhoods --- they're just often crammed between El Camino Real and Bayshore.

About RWC in particular, there are houses in Oak Knoll/Edgewood Park that make Atherton look like a slum; there are places in Emerald Hills that make Woodside look like, um, well, okay, Woodside's pretty fucking cool if you have $4MM and six horses.

It's not about your town; it's about your neighborhood. And RWC has neighborhoods that can compete with the best places in Burlingame, Hillsborough, and Atherton. That's fuckin' saying something.

Fair warning --- if you live in deep deep Emerald Hills, it's basically a half hour from both 101 and 280, which in every other place in the Bay Area is geographically impossible. You can get to 101 in less time from Dublin, for chrissakes. OTOH, the views are spectacular. A friend of mine sold his bidness to SAP and bought there. I would blow Larry Ellison for the view from the house he bought.

The problem with Peninsula life is the high schools. Burlingame's good, San Mateo's okay; I'm not sure I have total confidence in any of the others, except Palo Alto, which rawks. Lots of people here making >$120K are planning to send their kids to private school, which can range from $8K to $25K a year.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
The problem with Peninsula life is the high schools. Burlingame's good, San Mateo's okay; I'm not sure I have total confidence in any of the others, except Palo Alto, which rawks. Lots of people here making >$120K are planning to send their kids to private school, which can range from $8K to $25K a year.

How much do schools, especially high schools, matter?

Genuine question. I went to a pretty bad high school by most measures (graduation rates, college admission rates, college attendance rates, average SATs), but it was a very diverse school, economically (both the richest and the poorest kids in town attended, and the entire spectrum was represented in pretty much the same ratio as the town). So while it had a 50% drop out rate, it also pretty consistently churned out a merit scholar or two every year.

Anyway, I seemed to do okay, as did most of my friends (admittedly, they were the smart and/or well off ones). I can fully understand that at a certain level a school can be so bad that education is impossible, but you're talking about exurbs here.

I'm just curious about this because so many people seem to make so much about the importance of good schools. Locally, houses in the districts of the two "best" schools command a 30-40% premium over surrounding schools, but I've been to the high school that my kids would go to if we still live here then and it's about the nicest public school I've seen, despite the occasional admonition from friends and co-workers that we really need to move before the baltspawn get to school age (the elementary school admittedly has had problems, but in the last five years has steadily risen in the rankings done by the state and was recently ranked in the exceptional category, due mainly to an incredible principal - not that anyone outside the area seems to have noticed).

Am I doing the baltspawn wrong? We could probably afford a house in the "best" district, but not as big (3/2 instead of 4/3.5), and it would mean significant cutbacks in other areas, probably including things like camp and travel (and, more selfishly, cars).

Rereading this, I see it rambles. sorry about that.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by baltassoc
How much do schools, especially high schools, matter?

Genuine question. I went to a pretty bad high school by most measures (graduation rates, college admission rates, college attendance rates, average SATs), but it was a very diverse school, economically (both the richest and the poorest kids in town attended, and the entire spectrum was represented in pretty much the same ratio as the town). So while it had a 50% drop out rate, it also pretty consistently churned out a merit scholar or two every year.

Anyway, I seemed to do okay, as did most of my friends (admittedly, they were the smart and/or well off ones). I can fully understand that at a certain level a school can be so bad that education is impossible, but you're talking about exurbs here.

I'm just curious about this because so many people seem to make so much about the importance of good schools. Locally, houses in the districts of the two "best" schools command a 30-40% premium over surrounding schools, but I've been to the high school that my kids would go to if we still live here then and it's about the nicest public school I've seen, despite the occasional admonition from friends and co-workers that we really need to move before the baltspawn get to school age (the elementary school admittedly has had problems, but in the last five years has steadily risen in the rankings done by the state and was recently ranked in the exceptional category, due mainly to an incredible principal - not that anyone outside the area seems to have noticed).

Am I doing the baltspawn wrong? We could probably afford a house in the "best" district, but not as big (3/2 instead of 4/3.5), and it would mean significant cutbacks in other areas, probably including things like camp and travel (and, more selfishly, cars).

Rereading this, I see it rambles. sorry about that.

I think you do your child a service by having them in an economically diverse HS. I went to one. Seeing the results of poor educational efforts is a great lesson to your child in HS.

We had a lawclerk awhile back from a very wealthy HS. He told me in his high school there was a graduating class of about 300. about 10 didn't go to college. The kid was a train wreck. He had no sense of work ethic.

People who know me from PB know that I am quick to make broad generalizations based upon one data point. From this one guy I decided I want my kids in a school with a range of economic strata.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by baltassoc
How much do schools, especially high schools, matter?

Like anything, I think it matters somewhat. The reason people seek out the "best" schools is because they want to eliminate that variable as a source of concern. Probably any motivated child can get a pretty good education at most high schools (not the derelict inner-city ones and probably not the one-room schoolhouses in rural wyoming, montana, etc.). But that assumes a motivated child. Balt, I'm sure you were motivated to make of it what you could, and did well. But you're the exception. Hank too. There were probably a lot of middling students who, if in a better school, might have done better things.

On the other hand, and I've seen it in my (larger) family, sending kids to better schools doesn't do the trick either. My sister and I went to very good schools and turned out quite well. My cousins went to nearly as good schools and all are flakes. I explain both by parenting. I'm fairly confident that my sister and I would have done nearly as well (although probably with different courses) had we gone to different, not so good schools, and I'm even more confident my cousins would have been flakes regardless. Although probably high-school dropout flakes instead of mediocre college dropout flakes.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I think you do your child a service by having them in an economically diverse HS. I went to one. Seeing the results of poor educational efforts is a great lesson to your child in HS.

We had a lawclerk awhile back from a very wealthy HS. He told me in his high school there was a graduating class of about 300. about 10 didn't go to college. The kid was a train wreck. He had no sense of work ethic.

People who know me from PB know that I am quick to make broad generalizations based upon one data point. From this one guy I decided I want my kids in a school with a range of economic strata.

Oh. My. God.

I agree with Hank.

Indeed, I have had to send my kids to an economically diverse private school (yes, they exist) to get them away from the incredibly undiverse though extremely well thought of public school in our town.

I only know Palo Alto - but after 7 years we are still very happy about the schools and the community involvement in them. I won't say that the schools are amazingly diverse, but the town does make an effort with admissions from East Palo Alto (and the Stanford student ghetto) so that they are not completely homogeneous.

Los Altos is also great, and some LA households are districted for PA schools.

Oddly enough, for the price you can get a bigger house in Portola Valley than in Palo Alto. Downside is less community and longer commute. Public schools in PV are good till middle school, and apparently there is a charter high school that shows promise.

Most professionals that I know in San Carlos, San Mateo and Redwood City do private school all the way through.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Oh. My. God.

I agree with Hank.

Indeed, I have had to send my kids to an economically diverse private school (yes, they exist) to get them away from the incredibly undiverse though extremely well thought of public school in our town.

35. My Fair Gilligan
gs: Tom Forstor (executioner)

After Gilligan saves Mrs. Howell's life, Mr. Howell decides to make him his son. He immediately puts Gilligan through basic training to be a millionaire's socialite son (dream sequence), changing the way he walks, talks and dresses. However, Gilligan and the rest of the castaways miss the "old Gilligan."


b: 05-Jun-1965 pc: 0735 w: Joanna Lee d: Tony Leader

[Flinty_McFlint]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Oh. My. God.

I agree with Hank.

Indeed, I have had to send my kids to an economically diverse private school (yes, they exist) to get them away from the incredibly undiverse though extremely well thought of public school in our town.

Okay, outable info here, but whatever. I am the product of the San Mateo public school system. The education program wasn't great, it wasn't bad, it just was. But it was diverse with respect to student body (well, as diverse as the suburbs get). And I learned to interact and relate with lots of different people. And I learned how to act, and how not to act, around the other sex. I can't always say the same of my private-schooled friends, who all seem to have varying degrees of difficulty relating to people not like them, or the opposite sex. Cause and effect, nature v. nurture? I don't know. What I do know is that my kids' asses are going to public school, where they will be bullied and picked on by lots of wonderfully diverse people, and will make friends and interact with the same. I think this will serve them better throughout their lives than a great private school curriculum. But, again, this is only my opinion, for my kids. You all do what you think best for you and yours, and more power to you. Except for you home schoolers--what are you doing to your poor kids? ; )

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Flinty_McFlint
Okay, outable info here, but whatever. I am the product of the San Mateo public school system. The education program wasn't great, it wasn't bad, it just was. But it was diverse with respect to student body (well, as diverse as the suburbs get). And I learned to interact and relate with lots of different people. And I learned how to act, and how not to act, around the other sex. I can't always say the same of my private-schooled friends, who all seem to have varying degrees of difficulty relating to people not like them, or the opposite sex. Cause and effect, nature v. nurture? I don't know. What I do know is that my kids' asses are going to public school, where they will be bullied and picked on by lots of wonderfully diverse people, and will make friends and interact with the same. I think this will serve them better throughout their lives than a great private school curriculum. But, again, this is only my opinion, for my kids. You all do what you think best for you and yours, and more power to you. Except for you home schoolers--what are you doing to your poor kids? ; )

I don't disagree - but there are some public school systems in tone burbs that are more like private schools than the private schools. And the other way around.

[Flinty_McFlint]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I don't disagree - but there are some public school systems in tone burbs that are more like private schools than the private schools. And the other way around.

Then I'd do what you did. Or send them off to live with their cousins.

[tmdiva]

What I've heard (can't remember exactly where) is that smart kids with involved parents will do well in just about any school, and stupid kids with uninvolved parents will do poorly. The quality of the school makes a substantial difference only for those kids who are of more or less average intelligence/motivation, etc.

We've still got another year of preschool before hitting kindergarten, but we're already starting to think seriously about where Magnus will be going to school in the long term, and are stressing a little (at least I am) over the whole balance between keeping him sufficiently challenged and keeping him with kids of his own age group. In preschool, it hasn't been much of an issue because the curriculum is not academic and he gets most of his intellectual stimulation at home. However, I know this will change sooner rather than later, possibly as early as next year in kindergarten.

Anyone else read the article in the latest Time magazine about grade skipping? Anyone have personal experience with this issue, either for yourself or with your kids?

tm

[viet_mom]

All the postings on here about "good schools" makes me wonder how I should evaluate a school. Vietbabe will eventually be in elementary school and we happen to have moved literally across the street from the town's public elementary school (as in, parents park their cars in front of my house to walk their kids to the school) and I could walk her to school every day.

Prior to the move I had been planning on sending her to a Catholic school at a local yokal church because that is the type of elementary school I went to. I liked the atmosphere not because of religion but because if a kid did something wrong/mean, they would be told how the act hurt the feelings of another child, etc. as a reason it shouldn't be done (yeah, I know -- a variation of "Catholic Guilt"), whereas at the public school (which I went to briefly) a child would simply be slapped with a detension with no further discussion/action even though the child just sent a girl home in tears after calling her dead mother a whore. (Nice, huh?)

Plus it seems the classes in Catholic School are smaller than public school and darn if those little plaid uniforms won't look adorable on her (and how cute it would be to see her playing Mary in a school play). Bottom line: I want her to go to Catholic School so bad, but with public school across the street I'm inclined to send her there unless, after visiting it, I see utter mayhem and chaos at the public school. Other than lack of mayhem and chaos, how are we supposed to evaluate schools? Anyone else unduly influenced by the close proximity of a school (or think proximity is over-rated?)

Vietmom

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by viet_mom
All the postings on here about "good schools" makes me wonder how I should evaluate a school. Vietbabe will eventually be in elementary school and we happen to have moved literally across the street from the town's public elementary school (as in, parents park their cars in front of my house to walk their kids to the school) and I could walk her to school every day.

Prior to the move I had been planning on sending her to a Catholic school at a local yokal church because that is the type of elementary school I went to. I liked the atmosphere not because of religion but because if a kid did something wrong/mean, they would be told how the act hurt the feelings of another child, etc. as a reason it shouldn't be done (yeah, I know -- a variation of "Catholic Guilt"), whereas at the public school (which I went to briefly) a child would simply be slapped with a detension with no further discussion/action even though the child just sent a girl home in tears after calling her dead mother a whore. (Nice, huh?)

Plus it seems the classes in Catholic School are smaller than public school and darn if those little plaid uniforms won't look adorable on her (and how cute it would be to see her playing Mary in a school play). Bottom line: I want her to go to Catholic School so bad, but with public school across the street I'm inclined to send her there unless, after visiting it, I see utter mayhem and chaos at the public school. Other than lack of mayhem and chaos, how are we supposed to evaluate schools? Anyone else unduly influenced by the close proximity of a school (or think proximity is over-rated?)

Vietmom

Do the parents go in the school or leave the kid outside? Do parents come and go during the day? The more involved the parents are the more likely the school is fine/good.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by viet_mom
All the postings on here about "good schools" makes me wonder how I should evaluate a school. ...
Anyone else unduly influenced by the close proximity of a school (or think proximity is over-rated?)
Vietmom

I am probably unduly influenced by proximity (my situation is similar to yours - the school is close enough that the baltspawn run over to playground all the time when we go for a walk [the back of the school and the back of our house are connected by a field]). I'll probably be used to the cost of private school from the cost of day care by that point, but I'm going to be pissed off if I have to drive them 30 minutes to school each day.

As for evaluation - many states evaluate schools on a variety of criteria and make the results public. Maryland does, and the Washington Post evaluates the greater DC area as wellhere. Actually, I see the page also has a what to look for in a good school guide. I've been looking for information on performance on standardized tests, class size, student body turn over, discipline incident rates, and music, science, phys ed and library resources (not necessarily in that order).

[bill killer]

Didn't read the article yet, but I am a grade skipper and have some thoughts on the topic. I'm a bit busy right now (we're in contract on a house plus it's end of quarter at work), so will try to read the Time article when I get a chance; in the meantime, feel free to PM me if you want to talk.

Originally posted by tmdiva
Anyone else read the article in the latest Time magazine about grade skipping? Anyone have personal experience with this issue, either for yourself or with your kids?

tm