Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Well, this was worth a laugh. Dude, just admit it, you think he's bad boy sexy and want to explore the Crimes of Love with him.

I honestly can’t understand the freakout over him. It’s like he caused an extreme form of hormonal imbalance and loss of mental faculties among a certain percent of the country.

People were so insanely invested in this Mueller investigation. I just drove an hour and all that every news station is talking about is Trump and this report.

He’s not that important.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I think this is a good post. The idea that there are people out there who support Trump for transaction reasons seems pretty silly. Most conservatives will support the guy if he shoots someone on 5th Avenue or colludes with Russians for two years and lies about it. The mainstream media doesn't really know what to do with that, because their notional audience is a bunch of centrist who are not wedded to either party and who could vote either way depending on the circumstances. That audience doesn't exist, and most conservatives are not participating in the discourse in good faith. For Democrats, it means you stop trying to persuade those people to change their minds, and focus on motivating and mobilizing the majority of voters who don't like Trump.

I’ll tell you exactly what the media will do with that. They’ll pit his supporters against the Resistance.

What planet are you on? The media doesn’t believe it has a centrist audience. It believes it has warring tribes of idiots to whip into a frenzied battle.

It knows this because it worked assiduously to help create these warring tribes.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I honestly can’t understand the freakout over him. It’s like he caused an extreme form of hormonal imbalance and loss of mental faculties among a certain percent of the country.

There really is something wrong with you.

People hate him because of his idiotic policies, his stupidity, his ignorance, and his unwillingness to learn, let alone listen. They hate him because of his racism, his greed and corruption, his narcissism, his sexism and misogyny. They hate him because he would sell this whole country out if he could make an extra dollar. They hate him because he seems to generally like murderous despots and he compliments them because of their murderous ways or because they flatter him. They hate him because he's small-minded and cruel. They hate him because he lies more than any human being that has ever held office. They hate him because he has zero empathy--he's a fucking sociopath. I could go on and on. These are actual reasons. It's not some irrational confusing hatred that jumped out of nowhere, you dimwit.

The fact that you ignore the list above because (i) your wallet is okay and the stock market hasn't crashed yet and (ii) you describe the people who do give a shit about that stuff as suffering from a hormonal imbalance--aside from the obvious fact that you're just a dick--is a sign that there is something wrong with you.

Jesus fucking Christ.

TM

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

There really is something wrong with you.

People hate him because of his idiotic policies, his stupidity, his ignorance, and his unwillingness to learn, let alone listen. They hate him because of his racism, his greed and corruption, his narcissism, his sexism and misogyny. They hate him because he would sell this whole country out if he could make an extra dollar. They hate him because he seems to generally like murderous despots and he compliments them because of their murderous ways or because they flatter him. They hate him because he's small-minded and cruel. They hate him because he lies more than any human being that has ever held office. They hate him because he has zero empathy--he's a fucking sociopath. I could go on and on. These are actual reasons. It's not some irrational confusing hatred that jumped out of nowhere, you dimwit.

The fact that you ignore the list above because (i) your wallet is okay and the stock market hasn't crashed yet and (ii) you describe the people who do give a shit about that stuff as suffering from a hormonal imbalance--aside from the obvious fact that you're just a dick--is a sign that there is something wrong with you.

Jesus fucking Christ.

TM

Trump is pitiable. This much righteous energy aimed at a clown.

Vote him out. Run a candidate that will beat him instead of one who was kneecapped by a 76 year old and couldn’t utter a soundbite that was t poll tested.

No one listens to a party of sour grapes that can do nothing but cry that somehow (no explanation here as no votes were actually hacked) an election it lost was invalid. Or that we should abolish the electoral college. Or that after an investigation that didn’t provide the hoped for result, that investigation was fixed, or again, “invalid” in some regard.

Vote him out. The other efforts look petulant, and they’re going to backfire. And that’s not me lacking empathy. That’s the reality of the situation. And hating him really hard and investigating him isn’t going to change that.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Trump is pitiable. This much righteous energy aimed at a clown.

Vote him out. Run a candidate that will beat him instead of one who was kneecapped by a 76 year old and couldn’t utter a soundbite that was t poll tested.

No one listens to a party of sour grapes that can do nothing but cry that somehow (no explanation here as no votes were actually hacked) an election it lost was invalid. Or that we should abolish the electoral college. Or that after an investigation that didn’t provide the hoped for result, that investigation was fixed, or again, “invalid” in some regard.

Vote him out. The other efforts look petulant, and they’re going to backfire. And that’s not me lacking empathy. That’s the reality of the situation. And hating him really hard and investigating him isn’t going to change that.

What the fuck are you talking about? You sound like every idiotic Trump-supporting friend I have. Yes, he will be voted out. He probably won't be impeached.

I don't know how much Russia's interference played in swaying minds in such a close race, but you don't know one fucking person (including anyone here) who has said that hacked votes make him illegitimate. If anything people are upset that someone who is as shitty a human being as he is was able to win.

This is what you do. You prick your ears up for some shit someone has said that you think is crazy and you attribute it to everyone on the left. Listen close: You're not fucking fooling anyone. I just explained why people hate him. You act like it's a hormonal imbalance or irrational somehow. That makes you a dick--especially after reading a huge list of reasons and focusing on what you choose to focus on.

No one gives a fuck what you think is petulant. Fuck all the way off. Your opinion of yourself is mind-blowingly, unjustifiably high. If you don't think accepting help from a foreign adversary is a big deal or that every single person in his Administration has been fucking found guilty or indicted or that they all shit all over him after they leave because he's a small-minded, hateful prick or any other reason I could list for page upon page upon page, no one fucking cares.

Holy shit. Shut the fuck up.

TM

[Adder]

Originally Posted by thurgreedmarshall

there really is something wrong with you.

People hate him because of his idiotic policies, his stupidity, his ignorance, and his unwillingness to learn, let alone listen. They hate him because of his racism, his greed and corruption, his narcissism, his sexism and misogyny. They hate him because he would sell this whole country out if he could make an extra dollar. They hate him because he seems to generally like murderous despots and he compliments them because of their murderous ways or because they flatter him. They hate him because he's small-minded and cruel. They hate him because he lies more than any human being that has ever held office. They hate him because he has zero empathy--he's a fucking sociopath. I could go on and on. These are actual reasons. It's not some irrational confusing hatred that jumped out of nowhere, you dimwit.

The fact that you ignore the list above because (i) your wallet is okay and the stock market hasn't crashed yet and (ii) you describe the people who do give a shit about that stuff as suffering from a hormonal imbalance--aside from the obvious fact that you're just a dick--is a sign that there is something wrong with you.

Jesus fucking christ.

Tm

2

[sebastian_dangerfield]

People hate him because of his idiotic policies, his stupidity, his ignorance, and his unwillingness to learn, let alone listen.

And other people like the fact that he refuses to listen and pushes through on his promises, however implausible.

They hate him because of his racism, his greed and corruption, his narcissism, his sexism and misogyny.

And half the country hated Clinton on the basis that he was corrupt and sold out the country via NAFTA. They hated his wife for the same reason.

They hate him because he would sell this whole country out if he could make an extra dollar.

Half the country thought the same of Hillary and Bill and the Bushes and the enormous amounts of money they made after leaving office.

They hate him because he seems to generally like murderous despots and he compliments them because of their murderous ways or because they flatter him.

How many people in the country have hated Presidents for getting in bed with despots? It's true Trump is unique in fawning over them, but we've done business with the likes of Hussein, the Saudis, Pinochet, Marcos, the Shah, etc forever, and people have criticized Presidents for it forever.

They hate him because he's small-minded and cruel.

Here he is uniquely loathsome, true.

They hate him because he lies more than any human being that has ever held office.

That's true, but he certainly doesn't lie in the most consequential manner. Vietnam? Predicated on lies. Iraq? Same.

Much of our foreign and domestic policy is based on lies the Administrations tell the people because without lies, it's often hard to get agreement, consensus. We've known that forever. That's why nobody got too excited about Trump's lies about a border crisis. What was surprising was he was so bad at it. You'd think such a constant liar would develop some skill.

They hate him because he has zero empathy--he's a fucking sociopath.

You don't spend time with many politicians, do you?

I could go on and on. These are actual reasons. It's not some irrational confusing hatred that jumped out of nowhere, you dimwit.

It is irrational. The President worth hating was Bush II. This guy is a clown who can't get out of his own way.

The fact that you ignore the list above because (i) your wallet is okay and the stock market hasn't crashed yet and (ii) you describe the people who do give a shit about that stuff as suffering from a hormonal imbalance--aside from the obvious fact that you're just a dick--is a sign that there is something wrong with you.

I don't ignore him. I'm just numb to these "lists" because they're applied by different groups angry at who's President. When Bill was in office, everyone on the right hated him for a list of moral transgressions. Every social conservative has hated every Democrat since Carter for supporting abortion rights. Half the country hated Bush II because they claimed he "stole" the election via SCOTUS. The people on the right who fancy lists of reasons to hate politicians blamed Obama for almost everything. He was a socialist, he was a globalist, he hurt race relations, he ruined health care.

You have a list. Great. So does everybody who's governed by someone they don't like.

Is your list valid? Sure, for someone who wants the world you want. People who want a different world want a far different list of things. I wonder how receptive you'd be to hearing their lists. As someone who hears theirs and yours, I can only say, I don't want to hear any lists. Moralizing is relative. One man's hero is another man's suicide bomber. Voting, OTOH, is not relative. Somebody wins and somebody loses. And when Trump loses, I'll say the same thing to anyone on the other side: Vote the opponent out. The rest is just sound and fury signifying nothing.



TM[/QUOTE]

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I didn't invent it (I miss paigow, sniff) but he is Lonesome Rhodes, except he already did the thing that took lonesome down (I could shoot someone in 5th Avenue and they'd still support me) and it didn't matter.

There is no actual human as bad as him with anywhere near his power- need to go to fiction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zzCQLyNnIg

That's pretty awesome. How'd I get this far and not see that flick?

Regarding fiction, the argument at hand regarding Trump's "collusion" with Russia seems to be, "It might not have been illegal, but it was morally wrong." Putting aside the facial problems with judging political campaigns on moral bases, the counter to this argument is, "Politics is about winning and losing, and all that you can get away with is fair."

This raises the issue of whether the law is the law or the law is power. a/k/a ability to "just win, baby." In the world of fiction, there's no more concise assessment of how these notions conflict than the Judge's speech on moral law from Blood Meridian:

This is the nature of war, whose stake is at once the game and the authority and the justification. Seen so, war is the truest form of divination. It is the testing of one’s will and the will of another within that larger will which because it binds them is therefore forced to select. War is the ultimate game because war is at last a forcing of the unity of existence. War is god.

Brown studied the Judge. You’re crazy Holden. Crazy at last.

The judge smiled.

Might does not make right, said Irving. The man that wins in some combat is not vindicated morally.

Moral law is an invention of mankind for the disenfranchisement of the powerful in favor of the weak. Historical law subverts it at every turn. A moral view can never be proven right or wrong by any ultimate test. A man falling dead in a duel is not thought thereby to be proven in error as to his views. His very involvement in such a trial gives evidence of a new and broader view. The willingness of the principals to forgo further argument as the triviality which it in fact is and to petition directly the chambers of the historical absolute clearly indicates of how little moment are the opinions and of what great moment the divergences thereof. For the argument is indeed trivial, but not so the separate wills thereby made manifest. Man’s vanity may well approach the infinite in capacity but his knowledge remains imperfect and howevermuch he comes to value his judgements ultimately he must submit them before a higher court. Here there can be no special pleading. Here are considerations of equity and rectitude and moral right rendered void and without warrant and here are the views of the litigants despised. Decisions of life and death, of what shall be and what shall not, beggar all question of right. In elections of these magnitudes are all lesser ones subsumed, moral, spiritual, natural.

The judge searched out the circle for disputants. But what says the priest? he said.

Tobin looked up. The priest does not say.

The priest does not say, said the judge. Nihil dicit.

I've read Blood Meridian several times now. You can pick it up and reread it endlessly. If you haven't read it, you really ought to do so. It's tough going up front, but once it gains a head of steam, you can't put it down. And if you pay attention to its themes, you'll never forget it.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I honestly can’t understand the freakout over him. It’s like he caused an extreme form of hormonal imbalance and loss of mental faculties among a certain percent of the country.

People were so insanely invested in this Mueller investigation. I just drove an hour and all that every news station is talking about is Trump and this report.

He’s not that important.

It's pretty simple, suburban white boy. If you care about just about anything the government does, he's fucked it up.

Have a kid with disabilities? de Vos is looking to deny them benefits and screw up their education, and doing it based on prejudice instead of data.

An immigrant worried about getting your elderly parents over for the winter, well, there have been a succession of people at HHS and ICE telling you to fuck off with prejudice.

Sick person worried about coverage? Their message is the same: go fuck yourself, sicko.

Brown person looking to vote? The Trump message is go fuck yourself, (insert racial slur).

It's not like they're even civil about this. The only people they aren't insulting and attacking are... suburban white boys.

Wait a minute, I think I understand why you don't get this.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

What the fuck are you talking about? You sound like every idiotic Trump-supporting friend I have. Yes, he will be voted out. He probably won't be impeached.

I don't know how much Russia's interference played in swaying minds in such a close race, but you don't know one fucking person (including anyone here) who has said that hacked votes make him illegitimate. If anything people are upset that someone who is as shitty a human being as he is was able to win.

This is what you do. You prick your ears up for some shit someone has said that you think is crazy and you attribute it to everyone on the left. Listen close: You're not fucking fooling anyone. I just explained why people hate him. You act like it's a hormonal imbalance or irrational somehow. That makes you a dick--especially after reading a huge list of reasons and focusing on what you choose to focus on.

No one gives a fuck what you think is petulant. Fuck all the way off. Your opinion of yourself is mind-blowingly, unjustifiably high. If you don't think accepting help from a foreign adversary is a big deal or that every single person in his Administration has been fucking found guilty or indicted or that they all shit all over him after they leave because he's a small-minded, hateful prick or any other reason I could list for page upon page upon page, no one fucking cares.

Holy shit. Shut the fuck up.

TM

I'd just say not just his, but his whole administration's. When was the last time someone like Stephen Miller or Marilyn DeVos was welcome in government.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

That's pretty awesome. How'd I get this far and not see that flick?

A Face in the Crowd- anyone posting here should watch it if they haven't seen it yet- it's Andy Griffith, sure, but he is masterful.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I'd just say not just his, but his whole administration's. When was the last time someone like Stephen Miller or Marilyn DeVos was welcome in government.

This was really brought back to me yesterday. I was talking with someone who had been high up in HW's operation. He's old, he doesn't have axes to grind anymore, he's not part of the current craziness. And he was overwhelmingly sad. He guesses he is still a republican, but remembers when he thought there were a lot of decent people in the party, and he's not ready to say that anymore.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

This much righteous energy aimed at a clown.

!

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

And other people like the fact that he refuses to listen and pushes through on his promises, however implausible.

You weren't talking about why people love him. You were talking about how confused you were about why people hate him. Just because you can type a response doesn't mean you should.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

And half the country hated Clinton on the basis that he was corrupt and sold out the country via NAFTA. They hated his wife for the same reason.

So what?

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Half the country thought the same of Hillary and Bill and the Bushes and the enormous amounts of money they made after leaving office.

Again, so what?

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

How many people in the country have hated Presidents for getting in bed with despots? It's true Trump is unique in fawning over them, but we've done business with the likes of Hussein, the Saudis, Pinochet, Marcos, the Shah, etc forever, and people have criticized Presidents for it forever.

Do you see the difference? You articulated it yourself. Do you just need attention?

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Here he is uniquely loathsome, true.

Yeah. Am I on candid camera? This is why people hate him.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

That's true, but he certainly doesn't lie in the most consequential manner. Vietnam? Predicated on lies. Iraq? Same.

This response is just confusing. Just because he hasn't made the worst lies in history to justify wars doesn't really mean much more than he hasn't done it yet.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Much of our foreign and domestic policy is based on lies the Administrations tell the people because without lies, it's often hard to get agreement, consensus. We've known that forever. That's why nobody got too excited about Trump's lies about a border crisis.

Are you joking? "Nobody got too excited?" You just posted all about how people were running around like their hair was on fire because they are hormonally imbalanced. Are you on meds?

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

What was surprising was he was so bad at it. You'd think such a constant liar would develop some skill.

No. That wasn't surprising at all. He is a moron. Morons gonna moron.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

You don't spend time with many politicians, do you?

Jesus Christ.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

It is irrational. The President worth hating was Bush II. This guy is a clown who can't get out of his own way.

Finding someone who is always terrible and saying, "Don't hate this guy because he's terrible, hate this other guy because he's terribler" is just so fucking dumb.

Also, you spent the Bush years talking about how it was all no big deal. So, you're just constantly full of shit.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I don't ignore him. I'm just numb to these "lists" because they're applied by different groups angry at who's President.

That's your problem. You put no thought into anything you post. Your outlook is based on looking down at the "unthinking tribes." When people explain to you that there are policies that actually mean something to them, you dismiss it without listening. You are incapable of crediting anyone for caring about an issue that doesn't affect them directly. And you are way too focused on your own wallet.

One can objectively evaluate the concerns of different groups. You wave any of that analysis off completely and attribute the most ridiculous thing you've heard in the last 24 hours to the whole of one side or the other. It's a joke.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

When Bill was in office, everyone on the right hated him for a list of moral transgressions. Every social conservative has hated every Democrat since Carter for supporting abortion rights. Half the country hated Bush II because they claimed he "stole" the election via SCOTUS.

What is your point? Are you saying that they shouldn't have hated him because of their stated morality and the positions he held? Maybe you're implying that they were true hypocrites because they look the other way now?

Restating that people actually value different attributes and policy positions isn't analysis.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

The people on the right who fancy lists of reasons to hate politicians blamed Obama for almost everything. He was a socialist, he was a globalist, he hurt race relations, he ruined health care.

Aside from the last one (which some people may actually have been affected by), that list is bullshit. I'm not seeing a point.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

You have a list. Great. So does everybody who's governed by someone they don't like.

I truly don't get what you're trying to say. No one should have feelings about anything a politician does or says because...? What the fuck is your point?

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Is your list valid? Sure, for someone who wants the world you want. People who want a different world want a far different list of things. I wonder how receptive you'd be to hearing their lists.

You're kidding, right. That is the whole point of this board and life itself. We all evaluate the issues that are important to us and weigh and discuss them. This is maybe the dumbest conversation I've ever had with you (outside of anything touching race).

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

As someone who hears theirs and yours, I can only say, I don't want to hear any lists.

Hahahahahaha. You think you are in some unique position in which you are impartial and have an experience in which you can sit back evaluate all sides. You do not. You only care about yourself and your wallet. You're not impartial. You just don't give a fuck about anyone but yourself.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Moralizing is relative.

Brilliant.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

One man's hero is another man's suicide bomber.

Another nugget.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Voting, OTOH, is not relative. Somebody wins and somebody loses.

Pure genius.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

And when Trump loses, I'll say the same thing to anyone on the other side: Vote the opponent out. The rest is just sound and fury signifying nothing.

This couldn't be dumber. Really. First, you won't say a fucking thing to the other side. You lean so far right it's comical to watch you act like you don't here.

Second, the answer to losing an election isn't to just throw up your hands and say, "Well, I guess we'll get 'em next election," when the person in office is doing real damage to the country. You hold them accountable. You fight them when they cheat. You take stands where you can. Just because you're full of shit and shut off from any policy position that affects people other than you doesn't mean that's how people should be. And caring about those policy positions doesn't make one a mindless tribal robot.

TM

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Regarding fiction, the argument at hand regarding Trump's "collusion" with Russia seems to be, "It might not have been illegal, but it was morally wrong."

As I've said to you several times before, it's not that it's immoral, it's that it is compromising. Right now, Putin knows things that Trump has lied to the public about, that he likely can prove. That leaves is with a commander in chief whose loyalties cannot be trusted. That alone should disqualify him from office.

But hey, no crime no foul.