LawTalkers  

Go Back   LawTalkers > General Discussion > Politics

» Site Navigation
 > FAQ
» Online Users: 477
0 members and 477 guests
No Members online
Most users ever online was 4,499, 10-26-2015 at 07:55 AM.
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-25-2017, 12:05 PM   #2506
Hank Chinaski
Proud Holder-Post 200,000
 
Hank Chinaski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Corner Office
Posts: 86,041
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
Can any of you who worked at a large firm (hell, or any firm) name one person who came from night school? This idea that the best talent comes from the most elite schools is a joke. Our firm's partnership adheres to this delusion and there are very few partners who went to elite schools! There is a real disconnect about how people process themselves versus everyone else.

TM
My firm big law was what passes for "white shoes" around here. I was night school, but my boutique merged in there. I don't know if it would have hired me. My last big law had exploded from mid-sized to big (and nothing here is big in the sense NYC means) in the decade before I joined. The firm was kicking ass and driven by people that came up with a chip on their shoulders, night schools, shitty schools, hell there were people who went to Cooley.

By the time I joined they were seen as equal to the old line big law. We started interviewing "the elite" and the CEO, who was night school and too smart to not get this, got starry eyed. We started hiring these kids like mad. And the firm started to sputter.
__________________
I will not suffer a fool- but I do seem to read a lot of their posts

Last edited by Hank Chinaski; 10-25-2017 at 12:45 PM..
Hank Chinaski is offline  
Old 10-25-2017, 12:26 PM   #2507
Tyrone Slothrop
Moderasaurus Rex
 
Tyrone Slothrop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
Usually it goes the other way. Black associates at large firms find themselves on the outside of the power pipeline (and the related social dynamic) and move (i) in-house, which (although not exactly where it should be) is light years ahead of law firms when it comes to diversity, especially big ones or (ii) to smaller firms with better records with diversity even though the paychecks are smaller.

What I don't understand is why firms don't raid law school night school programs. The people there are often diverse, have worked all their lives (including through school--and the class load is like 1 fewer per semester while the curriculum and professors are exactly the same), and would be completely loyal to any law firm that brought them in.

I had the opportunity to talk to Disney's GC about what I thought would be an innovative way to bring in more diversity to his outside counsel and mentioned this. Of course he said he was the product of a night school law school education and seemed like he thought it to be a good idea. I don't understand the stigma attached to it. But it's there. Can any of you who worked at a large firm (hell, or any firm) name one person who came from night school? This idea that the best talent comes from the most elite schools is a joke. Our firm's partnership adheres to this delusion and there are very few partners who went to elite schools! There is a real disconnect about how people process themselves versus everyone else.

TM
FWIW, the government hiring process with which I'm most familiar was highly suspicious of the elite schools. No one would badmouth those schools, but no one wanted to hire from them, either.
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
Tyrone Slothrop is offline  
Old 10-25-2017, 12:31 PM   #2508
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Registered User
 
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
Usually it goes the other way. Black associates at large firms find themselves on the outside of the power pipeline (and the related social dynamic) and move (i) in-house, which (although not exactly where it should be) is light years ahead of law firms when it comes to diversity, especially big ones or (ii) to smaller firms with better records with diversity even though the paychecks are smaller.

What I don't understand is why firms don't raid law school night school programs. The people there are often diverse, have worked all their lives (including through school--and the class load is like 1 fewer per semester while the curriculum and professors are exactly the same), and would be completely loyal to any law firm that brought them in.

I had the opportunity to talk to Disney's GC about what I thought would be an innovative way to bring in more diversity to his outside counsel and mentioned this. Of course he said he was the product of a night school law school education and seemed like he thought it to be a good idea. I don't understand the stigma attached to it. But it's there. Can any of you who worked at a large firm (hell, or any firm) name one person who came from night school? This idea that the best talent comes from the most elite schools is a joke. Our firm's partnership adheres to this delusion and there are very few partners who went to elite schools! There is a real disconnect about how people process themselves versus everyone else.

TM
Yes, I've seen it go the other way when I was in a big firm. The good news is I just poached my associate's replacement from a small firm with a strong reputation for diversity, so I'm hoping I can improve ours (which is, well, very Boston).

I like the night school thought, but can't think of anyone from night school at any of the firms I have been at.

I've used the minority bar associations as part of trying to develop a pipeline, and gotten good resumes just by making sure they were included in every request for resumes we do.
__________________
A wee dram a day!
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy is offline  
Old 10-25-2017, 12:33 PM   #2509
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Registered User
 
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
My firm big law was what passes for "white shoes" around here. I was night school, but my boutique merged in there. I don't know if it would have hired me. My last big law had exploded from mid-sized to big (and nothing here is big in the sense NYC means) in the decade before I joined. The firm was kicking ass and driven by people that came up with a chip on their shoulders, night schools, shitty schools, hell there were people who went to Cooley.

By the time I joined they were seen as equal to the old line big law. We started interviewing "the elite" and the CEO, who was night school and too smart to not get this, got starry eyed. We started hiring these kids like made. And the firm started to sputter.
Very interesting.

One of the things I think we also have to do is stop promoting mediocre white guys because "everyone likes them". Is this just a widespread Boston disease or is that how the whole country promotes every Orville Ames Booth III out there?
__________________
A wee dram a day!
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy is offline  
Old 10-25-2017, 01:11 PM   #2510
Hank Chinaski
Proud Holder-Post 200,000
 
Hank Chinaski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Corner Office
Posts: 86,041
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post

I like the night school thought, but can't think of anyone from night school at any of the firms I have been at.
Everyone hates night school people.

GW was seen as the place for IP when I was there. And that was 95% based on night students, we all worked for the PTO or firms. GW was thinking about closing night school, because of US News & World Reports ranking. The average LSAT and GPA for night was lower than for day, and so we were holding them back. Meanwhile, its most visible program was IP, go figure.
__________________
I will not suffer a fool- but I do seem to read a lot of their posts
Hank Chinaski is offline  
Old 10-25-2017, 01:27 PM   #2511
sebastian_dangerfield
Moderator
 
sebastian_dangerfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,077
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower View Post
A nosedive seems like a generous characterization of our international reputation. This summer, we had to convince my wife's relatives in Greece that many Americans actually are aware that Trump is a pathological liar and and emotionally unstable disaster. They thought our entire country had just completely gone off the deep end. And let's face it, we basically have. Sebastian can scour the internet for the rest of time finding commentators who will say the Trump is not "the problem," that he is just a symptom of problems that have been bubbling up for decades. Fuck that shit. Trump is "the problem" "right fucking now." And, unfortunately, because his level of complete unhinged sociopathic fuckery is fucking horrible and dangerous RIGHT NOW, we don't have time to sit back and worry about figuring out exactly why Trump being elected was not Sebastian's fault. We need to try to contain the hemorrhaging occurring right now in this fuckhole of a country.
I saw this first hand while abroad recently.

My reply to “Trump? WTF?”: “He’s an atrocious ass, but the place was fucked for a variety of other reasons way beyond him. It’s cratering and filled with greedy people and idiots.

Thankfully, I’m Canadian.”

(I actually did say the first part. And I believe it.)
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
sebastian_dangerfield is offline  
Old 10-25-2017, 01:33 PM   #2512
sebastian_dangerfield
Moderator
 
sebastian_dangerfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,077
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
FWIW, the government hiring process with which I'm most familiar was highly suspicious of the elite schools. No one would badmouth those schools, but no one wanted to hire from them, either.
Yeah, but when you’re hiring outside litigators, “But he went to _________!” is great job protection if the case goes to shit. It’s always about the cya.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
sebastian_dangerfield is offline  
Old 10-25-2017, 01:45 PM   #2513
sebastian_dangerfield
Moderator
 
sebastian_dangerfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,077
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder View Post
ICE crackdowns. A young woman in custody being forced to have a baby. Successive attempts to put a blanket ban on Muslim immigration. Tons of judges. Sabotaging Obamacare.

Yeah, aside from that last one, which his base shouldn't want but does, it's not much because (1) the administration is completely incompetent, and (2) the courts are not yet stacked.



I don't understand what you're saying, but if you're saying he's a moderate among potential GOP nominees, that's not at all true. Sure, he's not the worst, but he's among them.



That's all they ever wanted. They don't like him because of policy. They like him because he hates what they hate: Muslims, black people (especially Obama), immigrants, women, liberals, trans people, and kinda sorta the gays but not so much any more because my cousin Larry is gay and he's a good guy so we're only going to make sure they stay unprotected instead of proposing to "hang them all" at least in public.



I don't know what he favors, aside from the above. He doesn't know what he favors. You don't know what he favors.



So you’re saying the base wants nothing but to drag down others to its level? Okay. I’m sure a few do, and perhaps I’m assuming rational thought where I shouldn’t, but don’t most people want something? Don’t these entitled folks assert they’re not getting what they want, and demand they get it?

If you’re right... if 90% of populists just want to inflict pain, yeah, we’re fucked.

ETA: I know someone who just dined with Trump. I know exactly what he wants. To be adored, and to fatten pockets he thinks will repay the favor. Full stop.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.

Last edited by sebastian_dangerfield; 10-25-2017 at 01:47 PM..
sebastian_dangerfield is offline  
Old 10-25-2017, 01:54 PM   #2514
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Registered User
 
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
I saw this first hand while abroad recently.

My reply to “Trump? WTF?”: “He’s an atrocious ass, but the place was fucked for a variety of other reasons way beyond him. It’s cratering and filled with greedy people and idiots.

Thankfully, I’m Canadian.”

(I actually did say the first part. And I believe it.)
People abroad have always known there were many monumental asses in America. They followed our civil rights struggles, they dealt with us trying to suck them in to wars, they know we had a dark side.

They never expected us to go electing Morgoth.
__________________
A wee dram a day!
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy is offline  
Old 10-25-2017, 03:23 PM   #2515
Did you just call me Coltrane?
Registered User
 
Did you just call me Coltrane?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Throwing a kettle over a pub
Posts: 14,709
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
I saw this first hand while abroad recently.

My reply to “Trump? WTF?”: “He’s an atrocious ass, but the place was fucked for a variety of other reasons way beyond him. It’s cratering and filled with greedy people and idiots.

Thankfully, I’m Canadian.”

(I actually did say the first part. And I believe it.)
FWIW, this happened to me in Vienna. In 2004. But with Bush.
__________________
No no no, that's not gonna help. That's not gonna help and I'll tell you why: It doesn't unbang your Mom.
Did you just call me Coltrane? is offline  
Old 10-25-2017, 03:24 PM   #2516
Did you just call me Coltrane?
Registered User
 
Did you just call me Coltrane?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Throwing a kettle over a pub
Posts: 14,709
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
People abroad have always known there were many monumental asses in America. They followed our civil rights struggles, they dealt with us trying to suck them in to wars, they know we had a dark side.

They never expected us to go electing Morgoth.
Monumental asses are in every country. Humans are, for the most part, dickheads.
__________________
No no no, that's not gonna help. That's not gonna help and I'll tell you why: It doesn't unbang your Mom.
Did you just call me Coltrane? is offline  
Old 10-25-2017, 04:04 PM   #2517
greatwhitenorthchick
Steaming Hot
 
greatwhitenorthchick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Giving a three hour blowjob
Posts: 8,220
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? View Post
FWIW, this happened to me in Vienna. In 2004. But with Bush.
Yes, the Sebbys of the world have been pretending to be Canadian for a very long time.
greatwhitenorthchick is offline  
Old 10-25-2017, 04:11 PM   #2518
Tyrone Slothrop
Moderasaurus Rex
 
Tyrone Slothrop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
Yeah, but when you’re hiring outside litigators, “But he went to _________!” is great job protection if the case goes to shit. It’s always about the cya.
I have seen this on the East Coast, but there is less of it on the West Coast.
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
Tyrone Slothrop is offline  
Old 10-25-2017, 04:14 PM   #2519
Tyrone Slothrop
Moderasaurus Rex
 
Tyrone Slothrop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhitenorthchick View Post
Yes, the Sebbys of the world have been pretending to be Canadian for a very long time.
Sooner or later he will make like a maple and leaf the US.
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
Tyrone Slothrop is offline  
Old 10-25-2017, 04:24 PM   #2520
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Registered User
 
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhitenorthchick View Post
Yes, the Sebbys of the world have been pretending to be Canadian for a very long time.
Sebby. What a hoser.
__________________
A wee dram a day!
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.0.1

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:33 AM.