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Old 02-02-2018, 02:44 PM   #4441
ThurgreedMarshall
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Nunes Memo

Analysis: https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/sta...94066840002560

TM
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:47 PM   #4442
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
I'm sick of hearing about how politics is tribal. Conservatives are a minority reacting to a mainstream they feel they are losing to, and they are tribal. The Left is not tribal, it's an incohesive collection of different interests. It has no single leader, no set of ties, no single goal, and no unity.
You realize the Right feels exactly the same way.

I think they're both wrong. I think you're forgetting the swing voters, the middle. They're not Left or Right. They could be either on any given day depending on the issue, or they could be neither. They could be a blend of the two. Maybe, like many people I know, they can't even decide who to vote for until they're in front of the lever.

I am in the middle. I've voted D and R. I hate Trump. But I also can't stand most of his critics. I was lukewarm on Obama. But I also hated most of his critics. I hated Bush. And I liked his critics. I liked Bubba, and I hated his critics, too.

Maybe, I just hate political critics.

And maybe that's it. Maybe those of us in the middle are just kind of tired of hearing from everyone who identifies as Left or Right.

My best friend once told me, "If you're holding a sign, you care too much." I believe I forget my own best advice to myself to remain apathetic because, well, I'm never going to get what I want in politics. And life's pretty good, so why argue?

I'm going back to writing silly shit. 'Twas much happier.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:50 PM   #4443
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Re: Immigration

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
Not since Trump. Whatever policy he floats appears to be loathsome until proven benign, or perhaps even decent. There was a similar thing with Bush. And Obama (with Slave, when he used to post here).



I don't agree with that. When ideas are discussed here, there's a pile-on effect and the arguments become quite blunt.



You realize doubling the standard deduction helps a lot of modest income people who are in the rental market.

And capping the SALT and mortgage interest deductions, although petulant and fucked up measures, do take from the affluent and redistribute to the middle class.



True. But what you and I see as crumbs are real dollars to the lower middle class.


Maybe now you do.



I don't follow that.



I just offered one. What would be your problem with doubling the standard deduction and capping mortgage interest deductions? (I'd geographically adjust the latter to stop punishing people in NY/CA/CT/NJ as the current cap does.)



I never said I was. But I am pretty much the only person who disagrees with anyone here on this stuff.



I happily accept that description.



If you scan back to the days of Bush, I'd surmise you'll see a 10 to 1 ratio of "Invective toward the GOP" vs. "Favorable comment on the GOP." I'm not making it up when I say this place leans left.

The conservative on this board would be...? There is none. I'm not even a conservative.

Have I lazily generalized and ignored some thoughtful positions? Sure. Guilty. But it's damn hard not to do so.

TM
I give up. It's like you can't hold a conversation. Your "not since Trump" and "scan back to the days of Bush" bullshit shows that you believe what you believe. Sebby gonna Seb. If I say, the invective language towards Bush and Trump is based on what they actually said and did while in office, that is meaningless to you for some reason. So, whatever. There's no point trying to get through to you.

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Old 02-02-2018, 02:50 PM   #4444
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Re: Immigration

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Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower View Post
"Little John"? Seriously, dude, you need to stop hanging out at suburban PA cocktails parties with Trump supporters.
Oh fuck... On this, I do hang my head in shame.

I am sorry. Truly sorry.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:53 PM   #4445
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Re: Immigration

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Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
I give up. It's like you can't hold a conversation. Your "not since Trump" and "scan back to the days of Bush" bullshit shows that you believe what you believe. Sebby gonna Seb. If I say, the invective language towards Bush and Trump is based on what they actually said and did while in office, that is meaningless to you for some reason. So, whatever. There's no point trying to get through to you.

TM
It's not. Statistically, however, when something's 10:1, there's some bias in play. I thought I made that argument clear enough.

I listened to what you said and admitted that it's a policy thing. But when things are so lopsided in one direction, it's statistically impossible for there not to be other causes at work.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:53 PM   #4446
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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I'm going back to writing silly shit.


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Old 02-02-2018, 03:13 PM   #4447
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Re: Nunes Memo

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It seems to be a nothingburger.
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Old 02-02-2018, 03:24 PM   #4448
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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You realize the Right feels exactly the same way.
There certainly are people on the Right who see the Left as their mirror image, but that's some combination of projection and ignorance. There is no "Left" in the way that there is a conservative movement. The people who identify with the "Left" are a distinct minority of people to the left of most Democrats who are under no illusion that they are part of a common movement with other Democrats.

If you're just trying to introduce me to the idea that people on the Right have a different view of the world, thanks but I already get it. I have lived in places like Oklahoma and Wyoming. Most of my extended family lives in states like those.

I don't understand why you are so committed to the idea that Right and Left are somehow parallel and the same. Across multiple dimensions, they care about different things. For example, gun ownership is something that a lot of conservatives see as really, really important. While a lot of people on the left have opposing views, they just don't care about the issue in the same way. Correspondingly, a lot of people on the left see climate change as a really important issue. The Right doesn't in the same way, except that they like irritating the left. Which is actually another fairly important difference between right and left. Conservatives really like to upset the left. The left generally does not give a shit about upsetting conservatives.

I think they're both wrong. I think you're forgetting the swing voters, the middle. They're not Left or Right. They could be either on any given day depending on the issue, or they could be neither. They could be a blend of the two. Maybe, like many people I know, they can't even decide who to vote for until they're in front of the lever.

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I just hate political critics.
Bingo.

Quote:
And maybe that's it. Maybe those of us in the middle are just kind of tired of hearing from everyone who identifies as Left or Right.
That's not quite it, because almost no one identifies as Left.

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My best friend once told me, "If you're holding a sign, you care too much." I believe I forget my own best advice to myself to remain apathetic because, well, I'm never going to get what I want in politics. And life's pretty good, so why argue?
Yeah, it's not identification with Left or Right that seems to bother you so much as people who care. Although Hitchens cared, and it didn't bother you. So that's not it either.

[eta] FWIW, I disagree with GGG that you're a conservative. You have a commitment to being in the middle, wherever that happens to be, and that leads to you to find conservative things to agree with when you're talking to people on your left.
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Old 02-02-2018, 03:25 PM   #4449
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Re: Nunes Memo

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It seems to be a nothingburger.
Big time. Like, I'm too bored to even yawn.
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:26 PM   #4450
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
The dad who rushed Nassar at sentencing was my best friend from college. We have drifted, and I had no idea this had impacted his girls.
I'm glad that the judge decided not to charge him. I'm so sorry for your friend and his daughters.
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Old 02-02-2018, 05:24 PM   #4451
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
You realize the Right feels exactly the same way.

I think they're both wrong. I think you're forgetting the swing voters, the middle. They're not Left or Right. They could be either on any given day depending on the issue, or they could be neither. They could be a blend of the two. Maybe, like many people I know, they can't even decide who to vote for until they're in front of the lever.

I am in the middle. I've voted D and R. I hate Trump. But I also can't stand most of his critics. I was lukewarm on Obama. But I also hated most of his critics. I hated Bush. And I liked his critics. I liked Bubba, and I hated his critics, too.

Maybe, I just hate political critics.

And maybe that's it. Maybe those of us in the middle are just kind of tired of hearing from everyone who identifies as Left or Right.

My best friend once told me, "If you're holding a sign, you care too much." I believe I forget my own best advice to myself to remain apathetic because, well, I'm never going to get what I want in politics. And life's pretty good, so why argue?

I'm going back to writing silly shit. 'Twas much happier.
You're not in the middle. You're an anti-tax voter who pretends to care about other things but not enough to nIt grasp at whatever straw you can find to justify your anti-tax vote.

Jesus. You just said you were lukewarm about Obama who will arguably go down as the most centrist president of our lifetimes.
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Old 02-02-2018, 05:24 PM   #4452
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Re: Immigration

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post

The conservative on this board would be...? There is none.
Hello? Is it me you're looking for?





Wonking a bit here, but I also agree with TM and GGG that the tax bill sucks.
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Old 02-02-2018, 05:27 PM   #4453
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Re: Immigration

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
I think we'll find some massive illegal tax strategy and offshore accounts.

I'm not sure on laundering because, while contracting is one of the best laundering devices, recall -- Donald doesn't build anything anymore. He licenses his name to other people's construction. That hotel in DC he claims he "built" was just s rehab, I believe. That's about the most he does in terms of going vertical.
That hotel in DC is the historic old post office, so, yeah.
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Old 02-02-2018, 05:28 PM   #4454
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
I hope someone exercises some prosecutorial discretion and lets that event slide. It's not like Nassar couldn't stand a bit of tuning up.

I feel for him and his daughters.
He didn't get to lay a hand on him anyway, did he? Definitely a no harm no foul situation and completely understandable. That monster hurt three! of his kids.
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Old 02-02-2018, 05:34 PM   #4455
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Re: Immigration

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
What is the last federal political investigation that resulted in four indictments with two guilty pleas?

Without commenting at all on where it is going in the future, there's already more "there" there than anything I can think of in a long, long time.
Whitewater, right? There were several Bush era convictions but I can't recall any that were related.
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