Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I'm not playing this game where we pretend to talk about this issue but each of us use the same words to mean different things so that we can talk past each other.

Nihil dicit.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

No, that's shite. I do not believe that Mueller is political. I believe that Mueller is trying to run a non-partisan, non-political investigation into what he sees as genuine crimes and national security threats. I believe this in part because Mueller is a Republican, and also because he has never been much of a partisan. I believe that the targets of his investigation committed real crimes and know this, and are trying to escape justice by complaining that the investigation and prosecutions are political, partly because Trump supporters will believe it. What's a shame is that you believe it too.

Many people commit all sorts of real crimes and are never prosecuted. Manafort has been convicted of crimes for which the DOJ abandoned investigations previously. And then he pled out on “collusion” offenses because he’s illiquid (feds lock up your assets and preclude borrowing with their forfeiture claims). Caveat emptor applies. But “justice”? You went there. The word “justice system” is a joke to any sane person near it.

Here’s how the feds win: They outspend you and freeze your assets. That’s your “justice” system in a tweet.

I’d shovel shit before I’d prosecute anyone. I don’t fear karma or believe in any laws of the universe, but even with that thinking, I fear an angry god would do the worst to me to me for being involved in “taking folks out” in our “justice system.”

It’s like being a Cowboys fan, or rooting for the Empire in Star Wars.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Smh

How are you racist? What racist acts or thoughts do you engage in every day? Ty’s ducking. What say you?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Smh

So much hate indeed.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Many people commit all sorts of real crimes and are never prosecuted. Manafort has been convicted of crimes for which the DOJ abandoned investigations previously. And then he pled out on “collusion” offenses because he’s illiquid (feds lock up your assets and preclude borrowing with their forfeiture claims). Caveat emptor applies. But “justice”? You went there. The word “justice system” is a joke to any sane person near it.

Here’s how the feds win: They outspend you and freeze your assets. That’s your “justice” system in a tweet.

I’d shovel shit before I’d prosecute anyone. I don’t fear karma or believe in any laws of the universe, but even with that thinking, I fear an angry god would do the worst to me to me for being involved in “taking folks out” in our “justice system.”

It’s like being a Cowboys fan, or rooting for the Empire in Star Wars.

See how quickly you gave up the pretense that the prosecution was political? That was easy!

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

So much hate indeed.

I am still interested in hearing some of the examples of acts or omissions in which you, me, or Hank engage in every day which are racist. Just some examples. That’s all.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

See how quickly you gave up the pretense that the prosecution was political? That was easy!

You’ve developed this Trumpian tic, in which you read something, apprehend exactly what it is stating, and then nevertheless claim, Without explanation, that it says something else which directly supports your point.

I think you need to stop reading about the man. He’s wearing off on you.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

How are you racist? What racist acts or thoughts do you engage in every day? Ty’s ducking. What say you?

I was SMH'ing Ty saying he refuses to engage in you two talking past each other. But the next time I see myself doing something I'll mention it.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I was SMH'ing Ty saying he refuses to engage in you two talking past each other. But the next time I see myself doing something I'll mention it.

I am the least racist person.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

I am the least racist person.

Not me. I'll have something pretty soon.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Not me.

Well, that's obvious. If I am the "least racist" person, that means you are, at best, the "second least racist."

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

You’ve developed this Trumpian tic, in which you read something, apprehend exactly what it is stating, and then nevertheless claim, Without explanation, that it says something else which directly supports your point.

I think you need to stop reading about the man. He’s wearing off on you.

You said the prosecution of Manafort was political. I disagreed. You then said this:

Many people commit all sorts of real crimes and are never prosecuted. Manafort has been convicted of crimes for which the DOJ abandoned investigations previously. And then he pled out on “collusion” offenses because he’s illiquid (feds lock up your assets and preclude borrowing with their forfeiture claims). Caveat emptor applies. But “justice”? You went there. The word “justice system” is a joke to any sane person near it.

Here’s how the feds win: They outspend you and freeze your assets. That’s your “justice” system in a tweet.

I’d shovel shit before I’d prosecute anyone. I don’t fear karma or believe in any laws of the universe, but even with that thinking, I fear an angry god would do the worst to me to me for being involved in “taking folks out” in our “justice system.”

It’s like being a Cowboys fan, or rooting for the Empire in Star Wars.

You said that Manafort was prosecuted for crimes for which other people aren't, and that he had trouble because he ran out of money to defend himself, which isn't "justice."

What you say about Manafort -- he got prosecuted for something others don't get prosecuted for, he couldn't get a fair trail because he didn't have the resources that the government did -- could be said about just about any criminal defendant anywhere. Manafort has far more resources than most criminal defendants, so why you pick that score on which to plead sympathy for him is baffling. And the notion that DOJ just passes on prosecuting money laundering is, uh, peculiar. Lots of people may get away with those crimes because they don't get caught, but they also don't chose the sort of public life Manafort chose.

I get that you have a distrust of prosecutors and a sympathy for the little guy. Manafort is the furthest thing from a little guy, though. He made many of his millions installing a kleptocrat and Russian tool in Ukraine, a man who murdered dissenters before he was overthrown. If you're going to sympathize with people oppressed by the criminal justice system, is there room in your heart for the people who were oppressed by Viktor Yanukovych? If you want to find something in this story that looks like the Empire, turn your eyes to Ukraine. Manafort is no Skywalker, dude.

Note what you didn't say: That Mueller's prosecution of Manafort is political. I wasn't responding to what you said, but to what you didn't say, which was telling. You don't really think that. It's just lorem ipsum.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I am still interested in hearing some of the examples of acts or omissions in which you, me, or Hank engage in every day which are racist. Just some examples. That’s all.

A few posts ago, you said, "There's a semantic bridge you're attempting to cross which no one ever will." Do you really not understand how people like the three of us help perpetuate racial inequality or are you just bristling at the semantics of calling that "racism." Usually, your schtick is, you are as woke as the next guy about how society is, but you refuse to call anyone "racist" if you can't prove that they are consciously and intentionally bigoted. Is it just a semantic bridge, or do you have a different view of society? Which is it?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

A few posts ago, you said, "There's a semantic bridge you're attempting to cross which no one ever will." Do you really not understand how people like the three of us help perpetuate racial inequality or are you just bristling at the semantics of calling that "racism." Usually, your schtick is, you are as woke as the next guy about how society is, but you refuse to call anyone "racist" if you can't prove that they are consciously and intentionally bigoted. Is it just a semantic bridge, or do you have a different view of society? Which is it?

I want to know how you think you, me, or Hank perpetuate racism. I just want a few concrete examples of ways in which we do this. Nothing exhaustive. Just a few specific acts or omissions.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I want to know how you think you, me, or Hank perpetuate racism. I just want a few concrete examples of ways in which we do this. Nothing exhaustive. Just a few specific acts or omissions.

And I want an answer to my question, and a pony, neither or which it appears I will get.

I worked in the government for a while. When I did, I was involved in hiring. There was a process and I played my little part in it, and I'd like to think my input was better than average, but it's a process that historically resulting in a pretty white workforce in my agency, and I didn't do anything to change that. You can characterize that as an act or as an omission, and you can bicker about my state of mind, but at the end of the day you have an institution which has pretty much always hired fewer ethnic minorities than it should, and I played my part in perpetuating that.

OK, now you answer my questions.