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Old 06-19-2003, 08:57 AM   #196
andViolins
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Arter & Hadden News

From today's Cleveland Plain Dealer:

Struggling Arter fights 'overhead issues'

http://www.cleveland.com/business/pl...1556033410.xml

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Old 06-19-2003, 09:39 AM   #197
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Arter & Hadden News

Quote:
Originally posted by andViolins
From today's Cleveland Plain Dealer:

Struggling Arter fights 'overhead issues'

http://www.cleveland.com/business/pl...1556033410.xml

aV
Overhead issues. Uh oh, I've heard that one before. I used to work for a company that got themselves into a rather expensive long-term lease of Class A space, when the size of the office staff did not justify the move from a much smaller Class A space. (Most of the staff worked in the field and had very little daily contact with the main office). Man, that is sad. I heard from a friend about someone who was supposed to start at Arter in September. There was a meeting, and em left with no idea of whether em would have a job or not after the Bar. That now leaves open the question of whether it will be the kiss of death for any future recruiting if A&H should, by some miracle, be able to avoid extinction.

What about other struggling firms? Do you think we've seen the last of the bloodbath, or will there be others facing either extinction or consolidation. The boom years had to have fooled other firms into being overly optomistic about their prospects for growth. When does it end?

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Old 06-19-2003, 03:22 PM   #198
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Arter & Hadden News

Quote:
Originally posted by spookyfish
What about other struggling firms? Do you think we've seen the last of the bloodbath, or will there be others facing either extinction or consolidation. The boom years had to have fooled other firms into being overly optomistic about their prospects for growth. When does it end?
that is hard to say, mr. spookyfish. if you look at the large law firms which have failed recently there is not a clear pattern that emerges. brobeck went fully for the high tech boom so that when the high tech bust started they entered the death sprial of attorneys leaving followed by running into large rent costs. hill & barlow may have actually been a victim of being too conservative in their business plans - they were dependent on one practice group (real estate) - times changed and the real estate group decided they could make more money elsewhere - once they left the remaining partners decided that without their largest and most profitable group to dispand the firm and go their separate ways. lyon & lyon (california ip boutique) seemingly collapsed due to infighting and disputes over profits. the immediate cause was partners defecting, generally to go to general practice firms (where presumably they would make more money), but underlying their collaspe was disputes over money. arter's problems seem to arise out of their expansionist course - by expanding outside of ohio, they entered much more competitive markets - such as washington, dc, southern california, and texas where there were more large firms. because arter has a relatively top heavy structure among large law firms (and indeed currently has more partners than associates) the firm had poor profits per partner compared to comparable firms. partners with large books of business left for more money elsewhere. remaining firm enters the death spiral of declining revenue and more partners deciding to take off.

thus although ultimately all four of the firms ran into money problems and greed is undoubtably an underlying cause, the sources of the conflicts are pretty different. brobeck had a bold vision for the future - which turned out to be wrongheaded. hill made the mistake of thinking that law was still a gentleman's game. lyon as an ip boutique didn't offer as much profits as the partners could make at gp firms. and arter found itselves unable to compete successfully with firms outside of ohio due to low ppp.

out of the four causes of collaspe - hill and arter probably represent the most likely to repeat cases. in hill's case, they failed to expand beyond their base as a boston real estate firm - and ended up dying when their base decided to go elsewhere. in arter's case they expanded beyond their base as a cleveland corporate firm and may end up dying because of the expansion. kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't for smaller large corporate firms. what is scary is that there are a lot of other firms that are similar to hill and arter which makes me fearful that there will be more large firms collasping.

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Old 06-20-2003, 09:12 AM   #199
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Arter & Hadden news

Second article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

Boom led to bust for Cleveland law firm

http://www.cleveland.com/business/pl...1746138580.xml

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Old 06-24-2003, 05:28 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally posted by andViolins
Second article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

Boom led to bust for Cleveland law firm

http://www.cleveland.com/business/pl...1746138580.xml

aV
so any updates in the arter situation?

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Old 06-24-2003, 05:54 PM   #201
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Ms. Naughty but Sweet,

Not sure you got Hill & Barlow right. Two years ago, no one around here would have thought of them as a real estate firm. They were an old line general practice frim with lots of strong groups, including real estate but including a number of other practice areas as well. However, they were also smaller than most of their peers and didn't want to hook up with a national firm. So, they kept trying to grow out of that awkward mid-level firm size, but the only group who seemed to know how to grow was the real estate group. So, they just outgrew the firm while the firm wasn't looking, and the rest of the firm just didn't keep up.

I think H&B may be the flip size of Arter & Harden. If Arter and Harden hadn't tried to grow, they might well have learned H&B's lesson instead of the one they are learning now.

Just some thoughts. Needed some relief from the politics board.

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Old 06-25-2003, 11:27 AM   #202
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A woman accused of endangering her baby by breast-feeding while driving on the Ohio Turnpike should not be the defendant, her husband said.

http://www.dln.com/news5.spml

When I first read this, I thought, 'O.K., maybe he was really driving or was with her in the car and made her do it. However, the key section in the article sez:

"She could have had the original police charges, driving without a license, obstructing official business and violating the child safety-seat law, reduced to a single guilty plea to driving under suspension, according to court records. She then could have closed her case by posting a $100 fine.

But her husband, Brad L. Barnhill, 46, said religious beliefs put him in charge of his wife's actions.

''I'm responsible for what she does, and no one can punish her except me,'' he said. ''If they refuse to allow me the free exercise of my religion, then we're going to appeal this all the way to the Supreme Court of the United States and they're not going to be able to try her before then.''

Barnhill said his faith is rooted in The First Christian Fellowship for Eternal Sovereignty, an organization founded in the late 1990s. Barnhill said he is a minister in the fellowship with 650 followers."

Oh yeah, now that is a winning strategy!

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Old 06-25-2003, 01:54 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally posted by andViolins

But her husband, Brad L. Barnhill, 46, said religious beliefs put him in charge of his wife's actions.

''I'm responsible for what she does, and no one can punish her except me,'' he said. ''If they refuse to allow me the free exercise of my religion, then we're going to appeal this all the way to the Supreme Court of the United States and they're not going to be able to try her before then.''
the only good thing i can say about that relationship is that they apparently deserve each other because they are both morons. unfortunately they have already reproduced. oh and another positive thing about them is that the article specifically states that they live in suburban pittsburgh so we can disclaim responsibility for them.

too bad for him that he doesn't live in saudi arabia. there men are routinely tried and punished for criminal acts of their wives in accordance with islamic law. of course, saudi arabia would still punish her, so apparently this "religion" is even more wacko than strict islamic law.

also i am curious about how he would punish her. since i believe that being married to him would be more punishment than anyone could take, i cannot see how any punishment that he could give that would be worse. in fact, six months in jail and away from him would undoutbably be a very good vacation for her. maybe she would even learn that it is a really bad idea to let a total moron control your life - especially if you are a moron yourself.

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Old 06-25-2003, 02:14 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Ms. Naughty but Sweet,

I think H&B may be the flip size of Arter & Harden. If Arter and Harden hadn't tried to grow, they might well have learned H&B's lesson instead of the one they are learning now.
but cleveland and columbus are much less competive markets than boston. there is no or very little hint that the midsized firms in ohio that did not expand their borders are having problems. there are plenty of 100-150 attorney ohio firms that are apparently doing perfectly fine. you certaintally do not have as much of the large national firm pressence in ohio that you do in a place like boston. thus i really do not see any reason why arter would be in trouble had they just remained mainly an ohio firm.

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Old 06-25-2003, 02:52 PM   #205
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Interesting. Here, those 100 to 150s are going fast. They're almost gone.

I always thought of Ohio as much more the domain of the national firms (Jones Day, Squire Sanders) than Boston, which until very recently had very little national firm presence. But, times have changed; I'd bet every major firm in this area does a deal to broaden its geographic base or join a national in the next four to five years.
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Old 06-25-2003, 03:16 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Interesting. Here, those 100 to 150s are going fast. They're almost gone.

I always thought of Ohio as much more the domain of the national firms (Jones Day, Squire Sanders) than Boston, which until very recently had very little national firm presence. But, times have changed; I'd bet every major firm in this area does a deal to broaden its geographic base or join a national in the next four to five years.
Ohio simply does not have that many 100 - 150+ attorney law firms. If you look at a typical list of the largest firms in Ohio:

http://www.ohlawyersweekly.com/largeoh2002.cfm

You get to less than 100 attorneys at number 21 (Hahn Loeser)

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Old 06-25-2003, 03:26 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally posted by andViolins
A woman accused of endangering her baby by breast-feeding while driving on the Ohio Turnpike should not be the defendant, her husband said.

When I first read this, I thought, 'O.K., maybe he was really driving or was with her in the car and made her do it. However, the key section in the article sez:

"She could have had the original police charges, driving without a license, obstructing official business and violating the child safety-seat law, reduced to a single guilty plea to driving under suspension, according to court records. She then could have closed her case by posting a $100 fine.

But her husband, Brad L. Barnhill, 46, said religious beliefs put him in charge of his wife's actions.

''I'm responsible for what she does, and no one can punish her except me,'' he said. ''If they refuse to allow me the free exercise of my religion, then we're going to appeal this all the way to the Supreme Court of the United States and they're not going to be able to try her before then.''
I wonder if this idiot is also going to try to "represent" her in court. I have $50 that says he does. Obviously he has no concept of standing -- or practicing without a license, most likely.

Quote:
Originally posted by andViolins

Barnhill said his faith is rooted in The First Christian Fellowship for Eternal Sovereignty, an organization founded in the late 1990s. Barnhill said he is a minister in the fellowship with 650 followers."

aV
What's scarier, that this guy thinks he has the right to punish his wife, or that he has 650 "followers".

P.S. MND -- I thought you might like a dude like this. The punishment may involve a good spanking.

sf
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Old 06-25-2003, 05:48 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally posted by spookyfish
P.S. MND -- I thought you might like a dude like this. The punishment may involve a good spanking.
very funny mr. spookyfish :blush:

i may like to be spanked, but there is no fucking way i would ever consent to a guy controlling my life like that. plus you're forgetting that what makes a spanking good and separates mutually pleasurable s&m from domestic violence is that the spanked party wants to be spanked and enjoys being spanked - which may be present in that case, but given the circumstances would appear to be lacking given the nature of the relationship. since the guy appears to be some sort of cult leader and there has likely been some sort of brainwashing of her that has taken place (nobody is that submissive naturally, right). i could be wrong, but in this case, i'm picturing beat the crap out of her type domestic violence rather than mutually pleasurable s&m.

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Old 06-25-2003, 05:51 PM   #209
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oopsie, i hit reply rather than edit

besides, mr. spookyfish, i am being a very good girl until my wedding - after all i do want my wedding night to be special

so since i am at my best behaviour, there is no reason to spank me now.

mnd

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Old 06-25-2003, 05:59 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally posted by andViolins
Ohio simply does not have that many 100 - 150+ attorney law firms.
another thing to keep in mind is that most of the firms which have expanded out of state are more regional in scope rather than national. jones day and squire are the exceptions rather than the rule.

and there aren't really any out of state national firms that have moved to ohio. i really can't think of any out of state firm that opened an ohio office. although simpson thatcher at one time had a really tiny office in columbus.

(oh and incidentially greedy cubed pretty much any info i had on h&b came from media reports so i'm not surprised if its not totally accurate)

mnd

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