Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Privilege is about walking into an interview and knowing you will be judged by people who look like you based solely on your actual qualifications. Privilege is about calling the cops and having them (i) show up in a reasonable amount of time, (ii) automatically identify you as the victim upon arrival, (iii) empathizing with whatever problem you have, and (iv) knowing you won't be in danger. Privilege is being a defendant and having the jury make a decision on your guilt or innocence based solely on the fucking facts they've been presented. Privilege is about opening a magazine or turning on a tv and seeing a standard of beauty defined by Nordic features and not even noticing. Privilege is telling everyone that if they want your attention when it comes to talking about privilege, that they should figure out how to talk about it without hurting your feelings.

My feelings aren't at issue here. I truly think the concept is "off." How am I supposed to stop availing myself of the things you list above? Obviously, I don't have an obligation to put myself at a disadvantage. (I don't even know how one would do so.)

My obligation is, when faced with a situation where I can stop discrimination, to do so.

If I sound irked, it's perhaps because recently, when faced on a large project with doing something really bad, but really easy (something Sessions would love), I vocally, quite colorfully, raised disgust with a suggested business model. And thankfully, so did others.

I know I'm lucky not to be on the shit end of the race or sex equation in this country. I've represented people in criminal proceedings and seen black kids treated like chattel by a fucked up system. Really, I get it. But rather than look at how lucky I am, which seems to be a focus of too many affluent whites (a very cheap way for them to assuage guilt and engage in their favorite pastime of introspection, I suspect), I'd rather just do the right thing where I have an opportunity to do so.

I'll probably never accept privilege as a concept, but I sure as fuck know I'm lucky. If I'm repulsed enough at what's done to the unlucky to feel I need to remedy it wherever I see it, might we avoid making the good the enemy of the perfect?

And let's face it... Even when on the right side, I'm never the guy who makes things easy.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

It's more than that. There's a suggestion that there are some benefits certain people are knowingly accepting, knowing it's at cost to to others, and there's a duty for these recipients to stop receiving it. What are those benefits? Can you define them?

The one that most infuriates me is in hiring. It's sitting in a hiring meeting and hearing someone praise X for being from a good family, nice town, good school, or having played a favorite sport. X is always white and usually male.

Other candidates get assessed based on things like accomplishments.

This is why, two generations after law firms and companies in this town began to say they were seeking diversity, they have not achieved much at all.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

You know the best way to get white people to engage when it comes to diversity issues? Give them awards. You know how we get lgbt and people of color to engage? Ask them. That's privilege.

TM

I will be stealing this line.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I'm not entirely sure I get it.

I took your point, and thought I should give you an award. The rest was sloppy execution.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

My feelings aren't at issue here. I truly think the concept is "off." How am I supposed to stop availing myself of the things you list above? Obviously, I don't have an obligation to put myself at a disadvantage. (I don't even know how one would do so.)

My obligation is, when faced with a situation where I can stop discrimination, to do so.

No one is asking you to put yourself at a disadvantage. The first step is to understand that, relative to other people, you enjoy a position of privilege. Even though you're fighting the semantics, I think you understand that.

The next step is for you to speak up when negative things happen to other people based on skin color, gender, etc. You're clearly already there on that front as well.

After that, it's about doing your part to make sure those negative things don't happen. Based on what you say below, this is something you seem to do.

Finally, taking an affirmative step to change the way things work when it comes to who enjoys privilege is the ultimate goal. This is obviously the hardest part. But it involves taking an honest look at what you enjoy and why and then trying to include other people or maybe even remedying the phenomenon. I brought up diversity and inclusion efforts for a reason. That's a good place to start. Making yourself heard in uncomfortable conversations around other white people who say stupid shit is something it sounds like you may do. Hell, look at Hank. He went out and helped underprivileged kids and got involved in their lives. Obviously everyone has their own thing. But sitting back and saying, "I have no duty to right the world's wrongs," is something only people sitting in a position of privilege say. There surely is no duty. But if no action is taken, then aren't you just saying you're okay with your privilege?

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

If I sound irked, it's perhaps because recently, when faced on a large project with doing something really bad, but really easy (something Sessions would love), I vocally, quite colorfully, raised disgust with a suggested business model. And thankfully, so did others.

Excellent.

The posts I took issue with have to do with this recurring theme of "This is not my issue." I think it is. You have a duty to not be racist or do racist shit. But if you take no steps to bring others along while you enjoy the privilege your circumstances of birth granted you, are you not part of the problem?

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I know I'm lucky not to be on the shit end of the race or sex equation in this country. I've represented people in criminal proceedings and seen black kids treated like chattel by a fucked up system. Really, I get it. But rather than look at how lucky I am, which seems to be a focus of too many affluent whites (a very cheap way for them to assuage guilt and engage in their favorite pastime of introspection, I suspect), I'd rather just do the right thing where I have an opportunity to do so.

I'm just trying to broaden your understanding of what "doing the right thing" involves. To me, in addition to not doing awful shit or not staying silent when you witness awful shit, it involves trying to change a system that actively benefits you.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I'll never accept privilege as a concept, but I sure as fuck know I'm lucky.

You've just accepted privilege as a concept.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

If I'm repulsed enough at what's done to the unlucky to feel I need to remedy it wherever I see it, might we not make the good the enemy of the perfect?

This idea that if someone tells you that you're lucky relative to other people means you will shut down and avoid remedying instances of oppression, then you've lost me.

When my wife says to me, "You don't have to feel frightened when a strange man talks to you on your way home. You're lucky." I don't think, "Fuck that. That's not my fault. I don't assault women. Now I'm not going to intervene when some dude gets aggressive with a woman on the subway." That shit makes no sense.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I took your point, and thought I should give you an award. The rest was sloppy execution.

Ah. Got it. I thought it was because of all these soft dicks I was prepping for the camera.

TM

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

How am I supposed to stop availing myself of the things you list above?

You do what you can where you can. Might be really small stuff - like maybe you shut up in the meeting and let a woman talk - but first and foremost you listen when other people tell you they experience the world differently.

And then you can find ways to lend your privilege to the cause. Go out and march. Observe the police when they're interacting with people of color. Call out men and white people on their shit.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I'll probably never accept privilege as a concept

You maybe have a problem with the word choice more than the concept? I don't like the word choice, because I grew up thinking of "privileged" as living in a mansion in Grosse Pointe, but it is the word chosen.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

You may argue with me. But now you're trending into judging me. That you may not do.

First, I know I am late to the party on this, but are you fucking serious? "That you may not do." I see you kind of hinted that you were "just joking" but I'm buying that about as much as I'm buying that that McCarthy was "just joking" about Putin paying Trump. Speaking of which, can someone (SEC Chick?) explain to my how Ryan should not be immediately removed from office for trying to ensure secrecy about this issue, regardless of the merits or truthfulness or "jokiness" of McCarthy's comments? Serious question -- I hate the guy so I cannot put myself into a mindset where I could imagine defending him. So someone . . . give me the pitch. Why is this something that should be overlooked?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.29abe50f594e

[Tyrone Slothrop]

It seems that Roger Ailes' material existence could not continue once he could no longer feed on the souls of others from his throne at Fox.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

It seems that Roger Ailes' material existence could not continue once he could no longer feed on the souls of others from his throne at Fox.

Deadspin has the appropriate response. I would have liked to see more like this when Scalia passed.

'I'm Sorry To Report That Roger Ailes Ever Lived

Albert Burneko

Inevitably, in the torrent of obituaries to come, someone will recite a list of Roger Ailes’s personal failings, repugnant views, and malignant actions, but then be sure to credit him with having been a brilliant provocateur or a visionary broadcaster or some shit. “For better or worse,” they will preface it. Nonsense. An asshole is not a brilliant visionary just because a toilet has a bottomless appetite for what comes out of it.

The only thing that needs to be written about Roger Ailes for all the rest of eternity is that he was as vile an abomination as has ever slipped from a human orifice, that the success and power he attained in life are as damning an indictment as you can read against the fiber of American society, and that the entire world is worse off for him ever having lived in it. Everything he was and did was awful and worthless. Bury him under an outhouse.'

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/im-...ved-1795334754

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

First, I know I am late to the party on this, but are you fucking serious? "That you may not do." I see you kind of hinted that you were "just joking" but I'm buying that about as much as I'm buying that that McCarthy was "just joking" about Putin paying Trump. Speaking of which, can someone (SEC Chick?) explain to my how Ryan should not be immediately removed from office for trying to ensure secrecy about this issue, regardless of the merits or truthfulness or "jokiness" of McCarthy's comments? Serious question -- I hate the guy so I cannot put myself into a mindset where I could imagine defending him. So someone . . . give me the pitch. Why is this something that should be overlooked?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.29abe50f594e

Excellent question. I assume he thinks Republicans will continue to vote as a block for his shitty legislation and that he needs to force as much through before 2018 as he can. But homie is in a boat riddled with holes, armed with a teaspoon.

This article explores his mindset, but I think it fails when it comes to Pence, who will be found to have been complicit in all sorts of shit (especially Flynn's appointment after knowing he was under investigation), so I don't know what their plan is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.020fd64af6dc

TM

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

You maybe have a problem with the word choice more than the concept? I don't like the word choice, because I grew up thinking of "privileged" as living in a mansion in Grosse Pointe, but it is the word chosen.

Exactly my point, but Hank stated it more clearly and with brevity. Well-played, sir -- I said well-played.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Deadspin has the appropriate response. I would have liked to see more like this when Scalia passed.

'I'm Sorry To Report That Roger Ailes Ever Lived

Albert Burneko

Inevitably, in the torrent of obituaries to come, someone will recite a list of Roger Ailes’s personal failings, repugnant views, and malignant actions, but then be sure to credit him with having been a brilliant provocateur or a visionary broadcaster or some shit. “For better or worse,” they will preface it. Nonsense. An asshole is not a brilliant visionary just because a toilet has a bottomless appetite for what comes out of it.

The only thing that needs to be written about Roger Ailes for all the rest of eternity is that he was as vile an abomination as has ever slipped from a human orifice, that the success and power he attained in life are as damning an indictment as you can read against the fiber of American society, and that the entire world is worse off for him ever having lived in it. Everything he was and did was awful and worthless. Bury him under an outhouse.'

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/im-...ved-1795334754

TM

He turned 30% of the population into fearful and angry misanthropes.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

This thread is disturbingly strong, which I say never having seen the show.