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10-08-2019, 05:44 PM
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#3826
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
Nice to see the White House counsel pay lip service to the rule of law. Hopefully this Supreme Court still thinks Marbury v. Madison is good law, and we can have the differences between the House and the Executive Branch sorted out in the courts.
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“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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10-08-2019, 05:47 PM
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#3827
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
FWIW, I don't think Biden is crushing her, but I'm also not paying very close attention because I think things are fluid in the medium term. YMMV.
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Just saw this. Looks like he has been flat and she has been making a move, maybe at Kamala Harris's expense:
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“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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10-08-2019, 06:24 PM
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#3828
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Proud Holder-Post 200,000
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Corner Office
Posts: 86,041
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
I'm defending a case that maybe has $4M in provable damages, and the Plaintiff's Biglaw firm has billed $1.3M. The defendants are moving to dismiss the billionth amended complaint. The plaintiff is an LLC that is owned by a Fortune 500 company.
I mean, once you pass the $200k mark and you're still in the pleadings stage, you might want to re-evaluate your counsel.
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Big Law doesn’t know how to staff and run a limited damages case. I just had a plaintiff case where we estimated dames at $10M. It stared out fairly aggressively fought. All deps that might help etc. both sides. Then a patent marking issues slashed my damages to $2M. We down shifted accordingly. Do we need this or not? The other side Boston Big Law kept sending 5 lawyers to Minneapolis for each hearing or dep.
Then when you get to mediation the guy is all”it’ll cost you each $5M to take this through trial, so you know, settle.” I’m like, dude $250k tops. I don’t know if Big Law doesn’t care or just can’t tailor anything?
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I will not suffer a fool- but I do seem to read a lot of their posts
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10-08-2019, 06:45 PM
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#3829
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
I have just read and reread the White House Counsel's letter, and it is, without a doubt, the worst piece of legal writing I have ever read.
I didn't see anything that bad when I was in law school and working for an immigration lawyer and had to read pro se pleadings from people who barely spoke English.
I once had a lawyer client who had literally lost his mind and spend years sending the IRS lengthy handwritten diatribes instead of tax returns, and he wrote better.
I mean, I would expect more in a fourth grade civics class.
That is a whole new level of bad.
__________________
A wee dram a day!
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10-08-2019, 09:42 PM
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#3830
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,077
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I have just read and reread the White House Counsel's letter, and it is, without a doubt, the worst piece of legal writing I have ever read.
I didn't see anything that bad when I was in law school and working for an immigration lawyer and had to read pro se pleadings from people who barely spoke English.
I once had a lawyer client who had literally lost his mind and spend years sending the IRS lengthy handwritten diatribes instead of tax returns, and he wrote better.
I mean, I would expect more in a fourth grade civics class.
That is a whole new level of bad.
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It seems more a political than legal document. If playing to the common voter, it’s about 7 pages and twenty lines too long.
I could not read it. I got a headache. But I will say this: The “Sharpie Signature,” filling a third of a page (as his client likes to sign bills) is tacky and should be banned.
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All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
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10-09-2019, 10:42 AM
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#3831
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Wearing the cranky pants
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pulling your finger
Posts: 7,100
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Sorry. In almost every fucking poll (and crushing everyone in some). But thanks, Less.
TM
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We could start a new version of the dead pool among those of us who want to predict SCOTUS results - https://reason.com/2019/10/08/oyez-o...ow-in-session/
LessinAlmaty, Kazakhstan
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Boogers!
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10-09-2019, 11:09 AM
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#3832
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Throwing a kettle over a pub
Posts: 14,709
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski
Big Law doesn’t know how to staff and run a limited damages case. I just had a plaintiff case where we estimated dames at $10M. It stared out fairly aggressively fought. All deps that might help etc. both sides. Then a patent marking issues slashed my damages to $2M. We down shifted accordingly. Do we need this or not? The other side Boston Big Law kept sending 5 lawyers to Minneapolis for each hearing or dep.
Then when you get to mediation the guy is all”it’ll cost you each $5M to take this through trial, so you know, settle.” I’m like, dude $250k tops. I don’t know if Big Law doesn’t care or just can’t tailor anything?
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One of the first things I do with a client is a cost/benefit analysis of taking the case through (a) SJ stage, and (b) trial. With an estimated budget.
Even if I could bill out at $7-800/hr, I still don't see how I could generate 1/3 of that in fees before any depositions have been taken. Maybe I'm...honest? I don't know. I bill for the work that I do? Granted, the reason they are on their 12th amended complaint is because no one there seems to know how to draft a complaint to get around the economic loss doctrine.
This same Big Law firm asked the court for costs/fees for being forced to respond to an emergency motion (the motion was to stop the plaintiffs from destroying evidence). They filed a 2-page response and asked for $10k.
Denied. And laughed at.
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No no no, that's not gonna help. That's not gonna help and I'll tell you why: It doesn't unbang your Mom.
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10-09-2019, 11:31 AM
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#3833
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
It seems more a political than legal document. If playing to the common voter, it’s about 7 pages and twenty lines too long.
I could not read it. I got a headache. But I will say this: The “Sharpie Signature,” filling a third of a page (as his client likes to sign bills) is tacky and should be banned.
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In an embarrassing letter, that signature is perhaps the worse thing.
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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10-09-2019, 11:34 AM
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#3834
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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10-09-2019, 11:58 AM
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#3835
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I am beyond a rank!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,113
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
Abandoning the Kurds seems like it should be getting more outrage than it is getting, particularly from the GOP.
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10-09-2019, 12:03 PM
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#3836
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder
Abandoning the Kurds seems like it should be getting more outrage than it is getting, particularly from the GOP.
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This Administration is not interested in what most people think, so most outrage doesn't seem consequential.
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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10-09-2019, 12:30 PM
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#3837
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,077
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
One of the first things I do with a client is a cost/benefit analysis of taking the case through (a) SJ stage, and (b) trial. With an estimated budget.
Even if I could bill out at $7-800/hr, I still don't see how I could generate 1/3 of that in fees before any depositions have been taken. Maybe I'm...honest? I don't know. I bill for the work that I do? Granted, the reason they are on their 12th amended complaint is because no one there seems to know how to draft a complaint to get around the economic loss doctrine.
This same Big Law firm asked the court for costs/fees for being forced to respond to an emergency motion (the motion was to stop the plaintiffs from destroying evidence). They filed a 2-page response and asked for $10k.
Denied. And laughed at.
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This is why I enjoy workouts. You skip right to the end.
Yup, the client's in default. Yup, you can accelerate. Yup, you can confess.
But you can't collect. So let's explore taking your loan out, or stretching it, or getting out of this for a lump sum discount. Otherwise, we're going to burn ungodly sums fucking around in the execution process. And then at the last second, we might just throw them into bankruptcy and some other lawyer can feed off the carcass for a while.
Every case should work this way.
I sued someone a bunch of years ago for a million dollars, plus punitives. Fraudulent business valuation. Opposing counsel offered up all facts on how his clients, despite having assets, were judgment proof. That was a smart move I don't see replicated enough. I had to tell clients, "Look, there's clear liability, but you can't spend on this because collection's impossible." So we did the bare minimum to try to lever a small settlement going forward. Every case should work this way. They should all be vetted in the following order:
1. Collectibility;
2. Likely award size;
3. Probability of winning
I don't think big or even mid-sized or small comm lit firms like to honestly assess that shit because in almost all comm lit, when you factor in annoyance, time spent talking to lawyers, and costs, litigating anything other than huge cases - really huge cases - makes no fucking sense.
And yet you'll see small to mid sized businesses aggressively litigating (deps, motion practice, trial, appeals) over $250k and less all day long. Fucking mindless.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
Last edited by sebastian_dangerfield; 10-09-2019 at 12:34 PM..
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10-09-2019, 12:37 PM
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#3838
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,077
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
In an embarrassing letter, that signature is perhaps the worse thing.
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I wasn't kidding when I said the letter gave me a headache. It's impossible to follow. Reads like a fourth year associate's first draft of an appeal of a court's rejection of an equity or public policy argument.
Should have been signed with a giant smiley face.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
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10-09-2019, 12:39 PM
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#3839
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder
Abandoning the Kurds seems like it should be getting more outrage than it is getting, particularly from the GOP.
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The whole thing is so blatant, and will so obvious trigger broader conflict, that I suspect Trump wants a war to distract people.
__________________
A wee dram a day!
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10-09-2019, 12:43 PM
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#3840
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I wasn't kidding when I said the letter gave me a headache. It's impossible to follow. Reads like a fourth year associate's first draft of an appeal of a court's rejection of an equity or public policy argument.
Should have been signed with a giant smiley face.
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https://www.theonion.com/law-school-...m_content=Main
__________________
A wee dram a day!
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