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Old 09-18-2018, 10:44 PM   #2896
Hank Chinaski
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
You aren’t. If the logic isn’t compelling, ignore me.
With that as the test we’d have 90% fewer posts here.
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:07 PM   #2897
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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You aren’t. If the logic isn’t compelling, ignore me.
With that as the test we’d have 90% fewer posts here. #increasingpostcountsforgood
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:29 PM   #2898
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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I'm now living with the non-zero chance that he will whip it out to prove her wrong. Probably on that stupid Presidential alert so we all get it.
Enable the search function and I will find where I pre-dicked that months ago.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:14 AM   #2899
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Enable the search function and I will find where I pre-dicked that months ago.
unless you want to hook up with paigs, who I believe is single at the moment, maybe dial down the narcissism?
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:12 AM   #2900
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
They both have to testify Monday or this thing looks like a delay tactic. Don’t argue with me about whether it’s fair or not. The accusation is six weeks’ old, at least. She risks loss of credibility if he’s there Monday and she’s asking the FBI to vet a 36 year old story.

This is war. This is how it’s done. Unless you can tell me how delay benefits the effort to tank this guy, I think she needs to be on a plane to DC. If he’s there and she isn’t, opposition loses loses Flake, Corker, and any hope of anti-Trump GOP cooperation. Which the Ds need here.
I'd get her in front of impartial investigators. Have her do forty-five minutes live with a former FBI agent on 60 minutes Sunday night, and give the other 15 minutes over to the former FBI agent for discussion of what an independent inquiry would look like, so people can compare an inquiry by professionals with the questions asked the next day by partisans.

This is not about her reputation or his, this is about the reputation of the Court, the Senate, and the Republicans running this circus.

By the way, the 45 minutes live - it will be kind of boring without a lot of grandstanding, but much more memorable despite that.
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:45 AM   #2901
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
I'd get her in front of impartial investigators. Have her do forty-five minutes live with a former FBI agent on 60 minutes Sunday night, and give the other 15 minutes over to the former FBI agent for discussion of what an independent inquiry would look like, so people can compare an inquiry by professionals with the questions asked the next day by partisans.

This is not about her reputation or his, this is about the reputation of the Court, the Senate, and the Republicans running this circus.

By the way, the 45 minutes live - it will be kind of boring without a lot of grandstanding, but much more memorable despite that.
I agree. That is a shrewd way to blunt the GOP efforts to make this Anita Hill II while still getting her story out around the same time he addresses it. Putting her on 60 minutes is brilliant.
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:15 AM   #2902
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
They both have to testify Monday or this thing looks like a delay tactic. Don’t argue with me about whether it’s fair or not. The accusation is six weeks’ old, at least. She risks loss of credibility if he’s there Monday and she’s asking the FBI to vet a 36 year old story.

This is war. This is how it’s done. Unless you can tell me how delay benefits the effort to tank this guy, I think she needs to be on a plane to DC. If he’s there and she isn’t, opposition loses loses Flake, Corker, and any hope of anti-Trump GOP cooperation. Which the Ds need here.
Because it's war, she should not testify in front of the committee if the committee process is designed to just get it over with and vote, which is what the Rs are trying to do.

Instead, she and the Dems should stage their own "hearing" with as many witnesses as they want to get the full story out there. Let the Rs and Kavanaugh refuse to participate if they want. Yeah, they won't be able to get the FBI to investigate and won't have subpoena power, but at least demonstrate the difference between what Grassley wants to do and what should be done.

Which is what they should have done with Garland too. Hold the "hearings" that leadership refused and even stage a "vote." Not binding on anyone, but shows up the GOP for refusing to do anything.
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:26 AM   #2903
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Because it's war, she should not testify in front of the committee if the committee process is designed to just get it over with and vote, which is what the Rs are trying to do.

Instead, she and the Dems should stage their own "hearing" with as many witnesses as they want to get the full story out there. Let the Rs and Kavanaugh refuse to participate if they want. Yeah, they won't be able to get the FBI to investigate and won't have subpoena power, but at least demonstrate the difference between what Grassley wants to do and what should be done.

Which is what they should have done with Garland too. Hold the "hearings" that leadership refused and even stage a "vote." Not binding on anyone, but shows up the GOP for refusing to do anything.
I think GGG's idea is better. Go straight to the public. Easier to control the Q&A.

But it has to happen before or on the same day he testifies. Right now, by asking the FBI to look into a 36 year old incident of the variety it would never investigate, the Dems look like they're just trying to delay the vote. Her face and voice have to go on camera to rebut that presumption, and to give Flake and Corker cover for what I think they plan to do here.
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:30 AM   #2904
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
Right now, by asking the FBI to look into a 36 year old incident of the variety it would never investigate
Except that it would investigate when it's an issue in a background check, like here. As it did for Anita Hill.
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:41 AM   #2905
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
They both have to testify Monday or this thing looks like a delay tactic. Don’t argue with me about whether it’s fair or not. The accusation is six weeks’ old, at least. She risks loss of credibility if he’s there Monday and she’s asking the FBI to vet a 36 year old story.

This is war. This is how it’s done. Unless you can tell me how delay benefits the effort to tank this guy, I think she needs to be on a plane to DC. If he’s there and she isn’t, opposition loses loses Flake, Corker, and any hope of anti-Trump GOP cooperation. Which the Ds need here.
It is a delay tactic. They should outright state that the Republicans will put this guy on the bench without doing the appropriate research into whether he's a rapist. They're going to do it anyway. Paint the outline of the picture now and watch those assholes fill it in with glorious, vibrant, misogynistic colors.

I'm sick of Democrats not being more boldly political. The right thing to do is vet this guy and the allegation completely. It is also politically expedient to delay this shit until Republicans lose the House. It won't affect what Republicans do. But Democrats need to start being complete obstructionist assholes for politics' sake. Play to win. Decorum, process, respect for the other side? They're all gone.

TM

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Old 09-19-2018, 10:55 AM   #2906
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Adder View Post
Except that it would investigate when it's an issue in a background check, like here. As it did for Anita Hill.
It took 3 days for the FBI to investigate on Anita Hill (Ok, that itself may be a bit problematic)...

They're trying to ram this through before facts (or other victims) come out, leaving us potentially with a rapist on the court.
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:56 AM   #2907
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
It is a delay tactic. They should outright state that the Republicans will put this guy on the bench without doing the appropriate research into whether he's a rapist. They're going to do it anyway. Paint the outline of the picture now and watch those assholes fill it in with glorious, vibrant, misogynistic colors.

I'm sick of Democrats not being more boldly political. The right thing to do is vet this guy and the allegation completely. It is also politically expedient to delay this shit until Republicans lose the House. It won't affect what Republicans do. But Democrats need to start being complete obstructionist assholes for politics' sake. Play to win. Decorum, process, respect for the other side? They're all gone.

TM
A delay to take due care. A delay to get some of the 100 thousand documents still withheld. A delay to let a potential rape be investigated. A delay to do justice.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:30 AM   #2908
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Re: We are all Slave now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
It is a delay tactic. They should outright state that the Republicans will put this guy on the bench without doing the appropriate research into whether he's a rapist. They're going to do it anyway. Paint the outline of the picture now and watch those assholes fill it in with glorious, vibrant, misogynistic colors.

I'm sick of Democrats not being more boldly political. The right thing to do is vet this guy and the allegation completely. It is also politically expedient to delay this shit until Republicans lose the House. It won't affect what Republicans do. But Democrats need to start being complete obstructionist assholes for politics' sake. Play to win. Decorum, process, respect for the other side? They're all gone.

TM
I think the Democrats may be able to kill his nomination outright. Flake and Corker need some cover to vote against Kavanaugh, and they provide the cover for Collins and Murkowski to do so.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:36 AM   #2909
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
A delay to take due care. A delay to get some of the 100 thousand documents still withheld. A delay to let a potential rape be investigated. A delay to do justice.
Potential rape? Wait... Did he actually have sex with her? I read that he tried to take her clothes off and she stopped him, and then his friend might have stopped him. Am I missing something?
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:41 AM   #2910
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Re: We are all Slave now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
They both have to testify Monday or this thing looks like a delay tactic. Don’t argue with me about whether it’s fair or not. The accusation is six weeks’ old, at least. She risks loss of credibility if he’s there Monday and she’s asking the FBI to vet a 36 year old story.

This is war. This is how it’s done. Unless you can tell me how delay benefits the effort to tank this guy, I think she needs to be on a plane to DC. If he’s there and she isn’t, opposition loses loses Flake, Corker, and any hope of anti-Trump GOP cooperation. Which the Ds need here.
If I were her, I would opt out of your framing entirely. The question of when and how to hold hearings is the Senate's problem, not hers. It's her life. She is totally credible, and notwithstanding that we all know that a great many people will line up to trash her for their own reasons.

The question for her is, does she testify whenever she is invited? If I were her, my answer would be, I'll come tell my story if I'm asked by people who will listen with an open mind and with respect.
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