We are all Slave now.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

In a year you can thank her voters for martial law and a 365 day-long Purge.

Her supporters will be in prisons. Sebby too. The smart move is to take away all third party voters. They were so sure they were right they’ll walk into the gulag. Then, once Trump is reelected, all bets are off for us real Americans.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

If yall haven't seen the Sasha Baron Cohen punking of gun nuts, you have to check it out.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

No, if you accept that conservatism is about reaction than about some core set of beliefs, then it's easy to see how conservatives can move away from some ideas and towards others. And there are Republicans and libertarians and various interest groups who are happy to get tax cuts with conservatives but who may not really be conservative.

Liberalism is defined by some core beliefs, and a desire to change society in certain ways. (Conservatism is defined at its core by a reaction to liberalism.)

The core principle is triggering libs, to oversimplify it. More than anything else, what animates conservatism is sticking it to the left. Republican legislators passed tax cuts, but conservatives don't really care. Conservatives don't care about health-care policy, they care about trashing Obamacare. Who are the conservative intellectuals? Jordan Peterson?

The idea that conservatism is solely defined as a reaction to liberalism (i.e., sticking it to the libs) is the theory you are pushing. You keep offering it up as fact to make your point on your theory. It's a very strange way of debating.

I think most people on this board could come up with what they believe conservatism is--that core set of ideals you say doesn't exist. The question, as I see it, is: Are people who still hold at least some of these conservative ideals so willing to compromise on all the others that the label, "conservative," no longer has any meaning. Again, if that's where you are, I can agree.

In any case, I suppose it's semantics in any case and I don't really care. Republicans, conservatives, doesn't matter. They're almost all trash.

TM

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

The idea that conservatism is solely defined as a reaction to liberalism (i.e., sticking it to the libs) is the theory you are pushing. You keep offering it up as fact to make your point on your theory. It's a very strange way of debating.

I think most people on this board could come up with what they believe conservatism is--that core set of ideals you say doesn't exist. The question, as I see it, is: Are people who still hold at least some of these conservative ideals so willing to compromise on all the others that the label, "conservative," no longer has any meaning. Again, if that's where you are, I can agree.

In any case, I suppose it's semantics in any case and I don't really care. Republicans, conservatives, doesn't matter. They're almost all trash.

TM

Screw this. Let's talk about the definition of "treason".

What do ya'all think?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

If yall haven't seen the Sasha Baron Cohen punking of gun nuts, you have to check it out.

The first two sketches really turned me off - he behaves creepily in front of a GOP couple and a gallery owner who go to great lengths to be polite and succeed - but then the payoff with the gun nuts made it worthwhile.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Screw this. Let's talk about the definition of "treason".

What do ya'all think?

Pretty clear cut.

TM

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Screw this. Let's talk about the definition of "treason".

What do ya'all think?

I think your post underscores what others on this board have previously pointed out, which is that the most significant political problem facing this country right now is liberal whining about Trump.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

If yall haven't seen the Sasha Baron Cohen punking of gun nuts, you have to check it out.

I am on the same side as him on the issue, but the joke is stale- still pretty amazing he got people to trust him as whatever he claimed to be.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

I think your post underscores what others on this board have previously pointed out, which is that the most significant political problem facing this country right now is liberal whining about Trump.

2. Why did the admin here delete photo showing terrorists killing kids in Beslam or whatever, but allows posts that claim something other than a nothing burger is going on?

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

2. Why did the admin here delete photo showing terrorists killing kids in Beslam or whatever, but allows posts that claim something other than a nothing burger is going on?

I think Trump's press conference probably provided the answer to your question, but it was hard for me to understand what he was saying with Putin's dick in his mouth.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

I think Trump's press conference probably provided the answer to your question, but it was hard for me to understand what he was saying with Putin's dick in his mouth.

Apparently kneeling before the Russian flag is ok.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

The idea that conservatism is solely defined as a reaction to liberalism (i.e., sticking it to the libs) is the theory you are pushing. You keep offering it up as fact to make your point on your theory. It's a very strange way of debating.

I think most people on this board could come up with what they believe conservatism is--that core set of ideals you say doesn't exist. The question, as I see it, is: Are people who still hold at least some of these conservative ideals so willing to compromise on all the others that the label, "conservative," no longer has any meaning. Again, if that's where you are, I can agree.

In any case, I suppose it's semantics in any case and I don't really care. Republicans, conservatives, doesn't matter. They're almost all trash.

TM

What's your conception of conservatism? I think liberals have core beliefs, but I think conservatives are reacting to liberals, looking for some impossible reversion to an impossible past rather than having any particular outcomes in mind. I'm not saying ideals don't exist, but that they're effect, not cause. I will admit that in this view, I am highly influenced by Corey Robin, about whom see this. Why does it matter? I think it's mistake to think you can bargain with conservatives by identifying policy goals and negotiating compromises with them. Because they tend to be motivated more by sticking it to libs than by any particular outcome, that won't work. Also: If conservatives are motivated by principles, who are the thinkers defining those principles? It's not like the conservative movement is following any particular thought leader.

If you spend a lot of time on Twitter or Facebook, you will notice that conservatives spend a lot more time thinking about what will piss off liberals than liberals do about what will piss off conservatives. At the end of the day, liberals don't care about pissing off conservatives. They don't really care what conservatives think. They are focused on some other set of problems. Conservatives, OTOH, are obsessed with what liberals think.

YMMV. If anyone has a different view of what conservatism is, I'd like to hear it. I will note, though, that we keep hearing how liberals are responsible for Trump voters because of some episode of lefty/cosmopolitan/elitist disrespect for them. No one ever, ever, ever suggests that lefties change their vote because of what conservatives say or do.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

What's your conception of conservatism? I think liberals have core beliefs, but I think conservatives are reacting to liberals, looking for some impossible reversion to an impossible past rather than having any particular outcomes in mind. I'm not saying ideals don't exist, but that they're effect, not cause. I will admit that in this view, I am highly influenced by Corey Robin, about whom see this. Why does it matter? I think it's mistake to think you can bargain with conservatives by identifying policy goals and negotiating compromises with them. Because they tend to be motivated more by sticking it to libs than by any particular outcome, that won't work. Also: If conservatives are motivated by principles, who are the thinkers defining those principles? It's not like the conservative movement is following any particular thought leader.

If you spend a lot of time on Twitter or Facebook, you will notice that conservatives spend a lot more time thinking about what will piss off liberals than liberals do about what will piss off conservatives. At the end of the day, liberals don't care about pissing off conservatives. They don't really care what conservatives think. They are focused on some other set of problems. Conservatives, OTOH, are obsessed with what liberals think.

YMMV. If anyone has a different view of what conservatism is, I'd like to hear it. I will note, though, that we keep hearing how liberals are responsible for Trump voters because of some episode of lefty/cosmopolitan/elitist disrespect for them. No one ever, ever, ever suggests that lefties change their vote because of what conservatives say or do.

They're mostly just greedy bigoted assholes.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

What's your conception of conservatism? I think liberals have core beliefs, but I think conservatives are reacting to liberals, looking for some impossible reversion to an impossible past rather than having any particular outcomes in mind. I'm not saying ideals don't exist, but that they're effect, not cause. I will admit that in this view, I am highly influenced by Corey Robin, about whom see this. Why does it matter? I think it's mistake to think you can bargain with conservatives by identifying policy goals and negotiating compromises with them. Because they tend to be motivated more by sticking it to libs than by any particular outcome, that won't work. Also: If conservatives are motivated by principles, who are the thinkers defining those principles? It's not like the conservative movement is following any particular thought leader.

If you spend a lot of time on Twitter or Facebook, you will notice that conservatives spend a lot more time thinking about what will piss off liberals than liberals do about what will piss off conservatives. At the end of the day, liberals don't care about pissing off conservatives. They don't really care what conservatives think. They are focused on some other set of problems. Conservatives, OTOH, are obsessed with what liberals think.

YMMV. If anyone has a different view of what conservatism is, I'd like to hear it. I will note, though, that we keep hearing how liberals are responsible for Trump voters because of some episode of lefty/cosmopolitan/elitist disrespect for them. No one ever, ever, ever suggests that lefties change their vote because of what conservatives say or do.

I think what you’re citing is a bonus to conservatives. They accrue glee from the frustration and offense of the left. But it’s only incidental to their goal of reverting to a system where the control of affluent and middle class whites was the rule.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

I think Trump's press conference probably provided the answer to your question, but it was hard for me to understand what he was saying with Putin's dick in his mouth.

The system is resilient. Democracy is not failing. What I think a lot of the despair and anger of the left derives from is that the right has held back decades of hope for progressivism via SCOTUS, and that Trump has mainstreamed a white populist movement which has become a potent political force.

Those are good reasons for concern. But those are political and domestic. The fear that Trump is going to destroy the system and become a de facto autocrat in league with Putin or Erdogan is frivolous. The checks and balances that block that sort of thing have yet to even be engaged. And judging from GOP disgust at yesterday's press conference, they will be utilized in a bipartisan manner.