We are all Slave now.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Where do I get the authority to tell Harris who he can have on his show and how he must approach them?

That's the whole fucking point. Neither Klein, nor I, nor you have any such "authority". Which is why our opinion on the matter is in no way censorship.

Do you see the authoritarianism there?

No. As I've said a zillion times before, you've got to cut back on your right wing and libertarian media consumption. This is crazy talk

That’s the core of political correctness.

The core of political correctness is making an effort to consider how what you say and how you say it affects others.

The better approach is to say, “Harris had Murray on, Murray said X, and here’s why Murray’s wrong.”

Why is Harris above criticism? Who gets to decide which parties can be criticized and which can't? Don't you see the authoritarianism in declaring certain parties above criticism?

demanding Harris disparage any guest in advance to satisfy the political views of you, me, or anyone else, is a form of preclusion).

Political views? We're talking about whether Harris should present the actual science on the question presented. He should, unless he does not care about misleading his audience. If he does not care about misleading his audience, I hope no one listens to him (and he's no better than Alex Jones).

[Hank Chinaski]

Soo https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...house_map.html The house is this close,

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Yes he did. He he come out and say exactly that? No. Because then he'd concede Harris's argument. In context, unequivocally, the entirety of his comments were:

"Sam, you should not engage in this sort inquiry as you've done. Murray should only be considered with a pile of caveats I think apply to his work."

Bullshit. Harris can examine Murray's work however he likes. And Klein can examine it however he likes. Neither has the right to tell the other how he should discuss something.

Harris's point was very simple: There's knowledge out there today that politically correct people don't want discussed. Klein responded, Those politically correct people have a point, and you should listen to them. That's ludicrous. It turns that "marketplace of ideas" you cited into a "marketplace of acceptable ideas"... as decided by brahmin like Klein.

Bad ideas die in the light. If Harris desires to discuss the positives of Nazism, or nuclear war, he can do so, and Klein has no business telling him he shouldn't do it. Klein can of course do so, as his free speech rights are as broad as Harris's, but then I can write the following here: Ezra Klein is a politically correct McIntellect.

You can't find anything in the transcript that is remotely like what you think Klein said. As you say, bad ideas die in the light.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

You waffled all over the place and tried to change the subject, as you always do.

Yes, I got bored with some of the ways in which your ideas are silly and moved onto other ways in which your ideas are silly. Sorry if that was confusing to you. I might have thought you'd appreciate that I took your ideas seriously enough to respond to them, but no.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Nonsense. The study did exactly what you said could not be done.

The study did not use science to assess blacks' proportionate responsibility for their own circumstances, which in any event is a stupid idea that cannot be done. If you think the study did that, you are an idiot.

And you aren't an idiot, you're just too stubborn to concede that you've been saying stupid things.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Klein's points can be distilled to, "What good is it to analyze self-responsibility of an oppressed person. It can only be used for negative ends. You shouldn't do that."

Don't be so fucking obtuse. Genetics is not about self-responsibility. It's patently clear that you are engaging with your own straw men. Murray says blacks are genetically inferior to whites, so it's pointless to try to use the government to remedy the lasting effects of discrimination.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Bullshit. That’s entirely Klein’s point. Of course he can’t say it bluntly. That would expose him as squelching inquiry, and an illogical sort who places his politics above intellectual honesty.

Ezra Klein spent a huge amount of time listening to Sam Harris say stupid things and patiently trying to engage with him, publishing the whole fucking transcript of the conversation on Vox, and you accuse him of squelching debate and censorships. LET ME REPEAT: HE PUBLISHED THE WHOLE FUCKING CONVERSATION. THAT IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF CENSORSHIP, YOU BUFFOON. I patiently try to engage with you and you accuse me of the same thing. At least you're consistent.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Hey Sebby, use science to assess how responsible this guy is for his situation.

[Adder]

So Wiesselberg getting immunity in connection with the Cohen investigation is interesting, but I can't help thinking that in addition to meaning there are multiple witnesses to say 45 is directly implicated in the crimes we already know about, it seems like it also makes the broader speculated-upon money laundering case less likely. If Trump Org had been laundering money when buying golf courses for cash, Weisselberg, as CFO, would likely be involved and thus a poor candidate for immunity this early. Unless he's also cooperating on those issues too but for some reason it doesn't feel like he is.

Anyway, right now it feels like Mueller and it's spin offs may wind up not going that much beyond what we've sort of known all along.

[cue explosive revelation]

[Adder]

A "friend" (you know what that means) posted recently about the one year anniversary of the death of his second son, born days after his first son, who has Downs, was diagnosed with leukemia. The second was born with a heart condition that required an airlift and immediate surgery that he didn't survive.

I can't imagine the pain he and his wife have been through and, as a card carrying Minnesotan, don't have any words.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

One of the interesting things about the tributes to McCain are those coming out of the Middle East. I always find it interesting to follow Middle East twitter at times like this and see how particular Americans are perceived. Reading the tributes after his death, for example, I conclude Bourdain was probably the most universally loved person in all of the Middle East. Really, just everyone loved the man - everyone loved someone who came by, ate their food, asked them basic questions about their lives. He didn't take a lot of sides in conflicts, but broke bread with everyone.

The response to McCain's death, on the other hand, is a real mixture of love and hate. There are a lot of minority groups out there he connected with - the man knew the difference between the Yazidis, the Kurds, and the Chaldeans, and he spent a lot of time on the ground, but he clearly took sides in a lot of the conflicts and on more than one occasion expressed some racial or religious ugliness. There may be as many "let me tell you a story about John" posts from Iraq and Syria as from Arizona and DC.

I disagreed with him on almost everything, including many issues relating to the Middle East. But this is a man who at least tried to dig deep on issues, in a way few elected officials ever do, and despite his limitations and biases.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Ezra Klein spent a huge amount of time listening to Sam Harris say stupid things and patiently trying to engage with him, publishing the whole fucking transcript of the conversation on Vox, and you accuse him of squelching debate and censorships. LET ME REPEAT: HE PUBLISHED THE WHOLE FUCKING CONVERSATION. THAT IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF CENSORSHIP, YOU BUFFOON. I patiently try to engage with you and you accuse me of the same thing. At least you're consistent.

Obviously, the Mainstream Media is all about censorship unless they republish Daily Stormer articles on their front pages. Which is pretty much what Klein was doing, so probably all about censorship even then.

Why isn't Sebby advocating that we hear from more of the people Harris attacks? Maybe publish some of the statements released by different Egyptian or Iranian ulema?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Obviously, the Mainstream Media is all about censorship unless they republish Daily Stormer articles on their front pages. Which is pretty much what Klein was doing, so probably all about censorship even then.

Why isn't Sebby advocating that we hear from more of the people Harris attacks? Maybe publish some of the statements released by different Egyptian or Iranian ulema?

I do advocate that. Our foreign policy is, I’d estimate, 30-50% responsible for terrorism of Islamic radicals.

Every American ought to hear that story in total. And the percentage of responsibility we own for it should be assessed.

The current good v. evil narrative we’re running is obvious bullshit. (Except as to ISIS. Those fuckers were a straight up death cult, preying on their fellow Muslims.)

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I do advocate that. Our foreign policy is, I’d estimate, 30-50% responsible for terrorism of Islamic radicals.

Every American ought to hear that story in total. And the percentage of responsibility we own for it should be assessed.

The current good v. evil narrative we’re running is obvious bullshit. (Except as to ISIS. Those fuckers were a straight up death cult, preying on their fellow Muslims.)

There is a degree to which ISIS' rather gruesome and extreme tactics are a logical response, to the Shock and Awe tactics used to project American hegemony in Iraq (I think that our military is very much aware of this and does take a lot of steps, especially in the civ-ops world, to minimize it).

If the fundamental message from those dropping bombs with the goal of replacing the existing political and military structure is "if you don't concede we will visit extraordinary terrors upon you from the air and from our overwhelming military force", then someone trying to build a political leadership structure to face that Shock and Awe force needs more shock and more awe to compete, and the message of "they may kill you quickly but we will enslave you, torture you, make your loved ones suffer, and then you'll be condemned to Hell for eternity" is what you may expect back. Couple this with the Bush Administration's determination that they would completely replace the Iraqi military and leave substantially all the trained military and police fighters in Iraq unemployed, and we did a really good job of laying out the powder and the detonator. There have been some excellent articles outlining such things as the pay scale of the ISIS army compared to alternative employment, but these don't get the play the little performances by some of the cretins you favor get.

It's not all cause and effect from the US, there are plenty of other contributing factors to the likes of ISIS, but I wouldn't assume ISIS is some kind of irrational cult like American evangelicals.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

So Wiesselberg getting immunity in connection with the Cohen investigation is interesting, but I can't help thinking that in addition to meaning there are multiple witnesses to say 45 is directly implicated in the crimes we already know about, it seems like it also makes the broader speculated-upon money laundering case less likely. If Trump Org had been laundering money when buying golf courses for cash, Weisselberg, as CFO, would likely be involved and thus a poor candidate for immunity this early. Unless he's also cooperating on those issues too but for some reason it doesn't feel like he is.

Anyway, right now it feels like Mueller and it's spin offs may wind up not going that much beyond what we've sort of known all along.

[cue explosive revelation]

Stay tuned. I'm expecting another round of indictments before too long.

We ought to be making a bigger stink of the likes of Wilbur Ross. It's pretty clear that he's just crooked to the core.