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Old 06-06-2018, 08:11 PM   #1141
sebastian_dangerfield
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Re: I'm hoping...

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
Perhaps you can see why someone who has read your many posts explaining how you vote your financial self-interest might be surprised at this turn of events.
Long term vs. short term.

I fight this battle mentally every day because wrong on former includes lost compounding interest/opportunity, wrong on latter is wrong and no consolation.

Voting what is good for more people and voting voting what benefits you in this instance dovetail. That’s not infrequent. But you know that already.

Why do you think I like UBI? It’s a growth machine that’s also being just decent with people.
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Old 06-06-2018, 08:49 PM   #1142
Hank Chinaski
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Maybe if we stipulate that Hank is an expert on IP, he will agree that Trump and his family are corrupt. Win-win!
I already stipulated as much.
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Old 06-07-2018, 12:18 AM   #1143
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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I already stipulated as much.
Kumbaya, motherfucker!
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:48 AM   #1144
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Re: I'm hoping...

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well you left the substance of mine, so Cheers!

But as understood, your point was that the entire family has no business being in international businesses that might gain Chinese TMs? I don't know that we have ever had a president that owned as many businesses. Certainly we have not in my lifetime. So accepting a FB meme about what he should do is maybe a bit of a stretch for me- moreso when the meme is telling me what his aide (his daughter, but still) should do.

And they would have applied for the applications years ago. It seems to me the real scare post is he/she should have dumped their businesses because of REASON? Not "He/She got Chinese TMs!!!! they're valuable!"

And I was not hating on your response. You did at least respond. I was hating on those that stick their head in the sand.
One of the really striking things about this debate is that we're focused on whether he got a substantive benefit or merely the appearance of a benefit on these TMs -- where every past president avoided the appearance of a benefit, understanding the damage done by even such an appearance. Yes, it's a higher standard than we'd hold other people to. But that's because being President used to mean something.

I understand that TMs are not a big deal, and mostly administrative in granting, but, you know, once upon a time, it was a huge, many months long controversy when a Presidential brother who was kept at arms length from the White House decided to cash in on his brother's fame by marketing "Billy Beer"....
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:57 AM   #1145
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Re: I'm hoping...

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
One of the really striking things about this debate is that we're focused on whether he got a substantive benefit or merely the appearance of a benefit on these TMs -- where every past president avoided the appearance of a benefit, understanding the damage done by even such an appearance. Yes, it's a higher standard than we'd hold other people to. But that's because being President used to mean something.

I understand that TMs are not a big deal, and mostly administrative in granting, but, you know, once upon a time, it was a huge, many months long controversy when a Presidential brother who was kept at arms length from the White House decided to cash in on his brother's fame by marketing "Billy Beer"....
I'll respond in more detail to T, but i get all that. My sole point was that the smart need to not get dragged down. I was seeing people saying "These TMs put Ivanka in a dominate position for the exploding Asian market." I was simply trying to say, "take these reports with a grain of salt." Not because Trump wouldn't sell out the country if he needed to to get TMs, but simply because America needs educated voters, and unfortunately FB is becoming our knowledge base.
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:59 AM   #1146
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Re: I'm hoping...

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
Long term vs. short term.

I fight this battle mentally every day because wrong on former includes lost compounding interest/opportunity, wrong on latter is wrong and no consolation.

Voting what is good for more people and voting voting what benefits you in this instance dovetail. That’s not infrequent. But you know that already.

Why do you think I like UBI? It’s a growth machine that’s also being just decent with people.
UBI was what Lyndon Johnson probably would have done if he had another term. It was, as he put it, eliminating poverty with the stroke of a pen. Clinton worked hard to distance himself from the concept, and his "welfare reform" was really the exact antithesis. It's interesting to see it coming back into style. Progressive taxation was always a waystation to UBI, and maybe with folks like Ryan singlemindedly focused on making taxation regressive (and this last bill was a huge win for regressive taxation) its time for UBI to be back on the table.
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:37 AM   #1147
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Re: I'm hoping...

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FB meme? I didn't post a fucking meme. And what you just said makes no sense. We haven't had any Presidents in any business while in office while I've been alive. Do you understand why operating an international business while simultaneously setting foreign trade policy is an issue--even if it's just perception? Maybe you recall the beginning of Trump's presidency when everyone was making a big deal about his taxes* and him bullshitting about divesting? Maybe not.
I wasn't so much talking about you. You at least replied, and made points similar to those below. Other people deleted my comment. That is, they didn't care to consider whether there was a bit of puffing in what they were posting. And they were saying things like "these are very valuable and powerful tools to control the emerging Asian markets." I told them they are not. didn't matter to them.

Maybe I'm seeing things too darkly, but we need to maintain an educated electorate. and FB posts are becoming truth. you at least considered the point, but I worry about those that have no interest in doing so.

As to the bigger question of appearance, i get it. but I do not know what a Prez who does own businesses should do, let alone what an aide should do. i seem to remember Cheney put his holdings into someone else's control?

But the question of if Trump should be out of the business is the real question*. Getting the Chinese TMs is no different, actually less, than saying "boxes of Ivanka shoes were loaded onto a transport ship in Guilin. And Trump is offering China a deal about some phone company."

It is an outgrowth of the fact of the business. not a separate outrage.

On one issue i could state an actual fact. Actual facts are rare anymore. i thought it of interest. not saying I'm starting to think Trump 2020!, just asking where are we that any discussion is becoming a bad thing.
Quote:
You are still stuck on the effect of the trademarks.
Sure but the article was too.

*And listen, I have not studied the issue of what he should have done at all. You post about Trump several times a day. I get your outrage. i post about moth judging outrages instead. I'm not saying he shouldn't be jailed for not divesting- I've no opinion.
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Old 06-07-2018, 12:07 PM   #1148
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Re: I'm hoping...

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
UBI was what Lyndon Johnson probably would have done if he had another term. It was, as he put it, eliminating poverty with the stroke of a pen. Clinton worked hard to distance himself from the concept, and his "welfare reform" was really the exact antithesis. It's interesting to see it coming back into style. Progressive taxation was always a waystation to UBI, and maybe with folks like Ryan singlemindedly focused on making taxation regressive (and this last bill was a huge win for regressive taxation) its time for UBI to be back on the table.
UBI is stealth stimulus. The money goes straight back into the economy, as the people given it need it to pay basic bills.

We've had a bit of "secret UBI" going on since 2008 with SSDI and the temporarily extended unemployment benefits. I'd like to see a study done on the stimulative effect of those transfers during the financial crisis and a few years following it, when people were forced into unemployment, or compelled to seek disability if they could. I'd like to see a comparison of where that money went versus where all the bailout money given to the banks went. The former went right into the economy, and helped to prop it, while the latter that wasn't used to shore up reserves went into speculation abroad.

UBI makes solid economic sense the same way Jon Stewart's suggestion that we give the bailout to Main Street made sense. The little people spend the money and create economic activity. The people at the top save it and speculate with it, creating asset bubbles.
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Old 06-07-2018, 12:13 PM   #1149
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Re: I'm hoping...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
One of the really striking things about this debate is that we're focused on whether he got a substantive benefit or merely the appearance of a benefit on these TMs -- where every past president avoided the appearance of a benefit, understanding the damage done by even such an appearance. Yes, it's a higher standard than we'd hold other people to. But that's because being President used to mean something.

I understand that TMs are not a big deal, and mostly administrative in granting, but, you know, once upon a time, it was a huge, many months long controversy when a Presidential brother who was kept at arms length from the White House decided to cash in on his brother's fame by marketing "Billy Beer"....
As time goes on, Carter's Malaise Speech and Eisenhower's "Military Industrial Complex" Speech edge closer and closer in importance to the Gettysburg Address and Churchill's "We Shall Fight on the Beaches.." speech.

Carter nailed it on energy policy, and absolutely crushed it in describing our emerging shallowness and lack of decency.
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:01 PM   #1150
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Re: I'm hoping...

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
As to the bigger question of appearance, i get it. but I do not know what a Prez who does own businesses should do, let alone what an aide should do. i seem to remember Cheney put his holdings into someone else's control?
If you want to be President, you should have to give up any active business you have and place all of your investments into a blind trust. There is absolutely no way Trump or anyone else who is engaged in international business while running this country won't be influenced by their business and investments. Forget perception. Apparently that ship sunk.

I'm going to skip the rest of your post.

TM
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Old 06-07-2018, 04:11 PM   #1151
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Re: I'm hoping...

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
As to the bigger question of appearance, i get it. but I do not know what a Prez who does own businesses should do, let alone what an aide should do. i seem to remember Cheney put his holdings into someone else's control?
Put them in a blind trust and not plan on reassuming control. The job requires various sacrifices, and that should be one of them.
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:31 AM   #1152
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Re: I'm hoping...

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Put them in a blind trust and not plan on reassuming control. The job requires various sacrifices, and that should be one of them.
And had been the norm since Carter did so with his peanut farm.
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:04 PM   #1153
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Re: We are all Slave now.

I'm just hoping the rest of the world forgives us for electing him.
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:09 PM   #1154
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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I'm just hoping the rest of the world forgives us for electing him.
We are going to Quebec (City and Montreal and Mont Tremblant) in July. I've never sensed the slightest problem with Canadians, but I've never been to Quebec, and certainly with all of this nonsense going on. Nervous over here.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:44 PM   #1155
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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I've never sensed the slightest problem with Canadians
That's because we're pretty good at hiding our contempt.

Here's the thing:

Ontario (where I'm from) just elected as premier a Trump in Canadian form. He rode to victory promising cheap beer (seriously). He's Rob Ford's (remember him?) less classy and more white nationalist-y brother. (So on a private note, Fuck you Ontario, and especially fuck you Peterborough -- that's the place in the sticks where I am from that went all in for Ford.).

So my point is that things are just as fucked there as they are here. Educated v. not educated, urban v. rural divide, white assholes etc.

And Quebec has always been slightly fucked up. In Quebec City at least, they tend to like Americans better than English Canadians, so you'll likely experience no issues at all there. Montreal is pretty chill overall, so I wouldn't worry there. And Tremblant is touristy, so no problem there.

Returning to my original point about Canadians hiding their feelings. We do it well and are pretty reserved. So even if you encounter anti-Americanism, it will likely be pretty muted.
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