We are all Slave now.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

The media very much thinks it’s doing the Ds bidding.

If you think this you are an idiot.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

24 news repeats what news it has for 24 hours. Here's where I learned it- the DC sniper news- we would hear there's a new shooting and put on a news station- the news would repeat what little news there was over and over- THEN repeat the history of the sniper's prior shootings. That there is 24 coverage of anything is not proof of anything, other 24 hour coverage is stupid.

So there's no editorial judgment involved at all. The caravan of immigrants was news before Election Day, and then it just wasn't news. Sure, that must be it.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I’m missing your first point. Are you defending Buzzfeed as a “news” outlet?

In 2018, yes, Buzzfeed is an actual news outlet that employs actual reporters who report actual news. No less so than tv news, for example. Perhaps even more so for some of their reporters.

It was not whenever you formed your opinion, apparently.

As to your second point, Newton’s 3rd Law.

Yes, wild, racist, right wing conspiracy sources found their way into conservative news sources solely as an equal and opposite reaction to whatever lefty thing exists only in your imagination.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

You see wall-to-wall coverage of an invasion of the US by a caravan of poor Hondurans walking through southern Mexico, right before an election, and you see bias against Trump. It's amazing that someone who is so proud of being a free thinker is can be so oblivious to the power of the way things are framed and the recurring narratives that the media repeat.

And how much how the media reports it is being dictated by the current occupant of the White House.

The man is a disaster seems completely uninformed about any question of policy, but he has been masterful in his manipulation of the media.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

So there's no editorial judgment involved at all. The caravan of immigrants was news before Election Day, and then it just wasn't news. Sure, that must be it.

Maybe Trump stopped talking about it, so no one was? I don't know, i don't watch the news. What i do watch is you veering further and further towards crazy town- and you were already going that way before you took this hard turn.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

You see wall-to-wall coverage of an invasion of the US by a caravan of poor Hondurans walking through southern Mexico, right before an election, and you see bias against Trump. It's amazing that someone who is so proud of being a free thinker is can be so oblivious to the power of the way things are framed and the recurring narratives that the media repeat.

You're intentionally (I think) conflating intent and effect. The majority of the press is left leaning. That is not up for debate except among the ludicrous, so I'm not entertaining any silly comeback on that. A majority of these people really believe they are helping to take Trump down by reporting incessantly negative stories about him. Their intent is to harm him.

However, the effect is much different. By giving Trump so much airtime, they've created a monster that sucks up all attention 24/7, which delights, galvanizes, and possibly expands his base.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

In 2018, yes, Buzzfeed is an actual news outlet that employs actual reporters who report actual news. No less so than tv news, for example. Perhaps even more so for some of their reporters.

It was not whenever you formed your opinion, apparently.



Yes, wild, racist, right wing conspiracy sources found their way into conservative news sources solely as an equal and opposite reaction to whatever lefty thing exists only in your imagination.

I've read Buzzfeed, and Buzzfeed is shit. But you are free to hold a different opinion.

The Left lost its mind after the 2000 election. The discourse became insane. Consequently, when Obama took office, the right had a similar reaction (also because he was black, so the racists came out of the woodwork). Following Obama, Trump capitalized on the right's anger, got lucky and won. And in typical action/reaction fashion, the left went completely batshit crazy once more.

If a D wins in 2020, it will be the right's turn to attack everything the govt does once more.

It's a tennis match of increasingly irrational competing tribes.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

If you think this you are an idiot.

No. You clearly haven't had adequate personal exposure to political journalists.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

So there's no editorial judgment involved at all. The caravan of immigrants was news before Election Day, and then it just wasn't news. Sure, that must be it.

It was news on Fox because Fox is now GOP Base TV. They fed their tribe a pile of shit about a caravan of families being filled with terrorists.

It was news on MSNBC because editors there thought they could use it as a Trump shaming story. They could argue to their tribal viewers that he was both a liar (using the caravan as a political stunt to gin up votes) and that he is cruel (the caravan is filled with harmless refugees).

The story worked for neither outlet. They just preached diametrically opposed narratives about a made-up non-event to their tribal viewers.

The story had zero impact on the midterms because voters had already locked in their positions long before this craven BS story was crafted by Trump and picked up by the media.

The only possible winner here was Trump, who succeeded in getting more free airtime for no good reason. But since his goal with the story was to create GOP voter turnout for the midterms, and he needs more free airtime like a moose needs a hat rack, one can't really say he won anything for his propaganda efforts. The only comment that fits, on this story and with so many others like it, is Everybody Invested in it Lost.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

The Left lost its mind after the 2000 election. The discourse became insane. Consequently, when Obama took office, the right had a similar reaction (also because he was black, so the racists came out of the woodwork). Following Obama, Trump capitalized on the right's anger, got lucky and won. And in typical action/reaction fashion, the left went completely batshit crazy once more.

Where in there is the mainstreaming of Breitbart and Infowars?

And in what way is the left "completely batshit" right now?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Maybe Trump stopped talking about it, so no one was? I don't know, i don't watch the news. What i do watch is you veering further and further towards crazy town- and you were already going that way before you took this hard turn.

What's the hard turn? That Trump is a master at getting the media to talk about the things he wants them to talk about? That's the reality we have all been living for about three years now.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

You're intentionally (I think) conflating intent and effect. The majority of the press is left leaning. That is not up for debate except among the ludicrous, so I'm not entertaining any silly comeback on that. A majority of these people really believe they are helping to take Trump down by reporting incessantly negative stories about him. Their intent is to harm him.

What "incessantly negative stories" about him? WTF are you talking about?

The man lies constantly. We all know that. I bet no one here bothers to read the stories about how whatever he has said most recently is wrong. But the press repeats what he says credulously, giving him the benefit of the doubt, so the occasional debunking has little effect.

However, the effect is much different. By giving Trump so much airtime, they've created a monster that sucks up all attention 24/7, which delights, galvanizes, and possibly expands his base.

Boy, it's almost like any bias on the part of any individual reporters doesn't really matter.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Maybe Trump stopped talking about it, so no one was? I don't know, i don't watch the news. What i do watch is you veering further and further towards crazy town- and you were already going that way before you took this hard turn.

Since Bush's election, this Democracy or ours has been busted.

We're at a bizarre place today where everybody's in Crazytown. You can't even talk about politics with anyone anymore, and I'm not sure you should. Everybody's strident about everything. Everybody's got a grievance. Everybody wants you to agree with them and is upset if you don't. Sure, they'll say they're willing to listen to those who disagree. But that's lip service. They're only listening for the purpose of finding a flaw in what you've said with which to attack you.

You can't even talk about politics as sport anymore. If you criticize someone's party's strategy, you're criticizing its substantive planks.

People are rubbed raw and emotional, and I don;t think many of them understand how much of it is caused by people manipulating them - things like 24 hour news. And we now realize how irrational and tribal people are by nature.

I have learned one thing in the past few years, however. It is probably easier to manipulate educated people than non-educated.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

No. You clearly haven't had adequate personal exposure to political journalists.

Political journalists tend to be centrists. But the idea that their individual political leanings makes any real difference, or is near the top of the list of things that affect the media environment, is silly, and it itself a relic of the way conservatives constantly work the refs.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

It was news on Fox because Fox is now GOP Base TV. They fed their tribe a pile of shit about a caravan of families being filled with terrorists.

It was news on MSNBC because editors there thought they could use it as a Trump shaming story. They could argue to their tribal viewers that he was both a liar (using the caravan as a political stunt to gin up votes) and that he is cruel (the caravan is filled with harmless refugees).

The story worked for neither outlet. They just preached diametrically opposed narratives about a made-up non-event to their tribal viewers.

The story had zero impact on the midterms because voters had already locked in their positions long before this craven BS story was crafted by Trump and picked up by the media.

The only possible winner here was Trump, who succeeded in getting more free airtime for no good reason. But since his goal with the story was to create GOP voter turnout for the midterms, and he needs more free airtime like a moose needs a hat rack, one can't really say he won anything for his propaganda efforts. The only comment that fits, on this story and with so many others like it, is Everybody Invested in it Lost.

It was all over all of the mainstream outlets, like the NYT and WaPo, because once the conservative media are talking about something, it's news (in Hank's objective sense of course) (there's no phenomena like that on the left, because there is no left-wing equivalent of Fox News or Breitbart). The story had a huge impact on the elections, because the point was to turn out the base and to keep the media from talking about the number one issue to voters, which was healthcare, or trade wars, or other things that non-partisans care about.

Congressional elections are a zero-sum game. It is not possible for everyone to lose.