Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Did I have an obligation to vote for Hillary? Because it's only if one believes that, and is willing to say it, that one can argue I "robbed" her of a vote.

I'd like somebody to just write it: "You had an obligation to vote for Hillary."

I'll say it: you did. Just like the people of Louisiana had an obligation to vote for Edwin Edwards over David Duke.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

I'll say it: you did. Just like the people of Louisiana had an obligation to vote for Edwin Edwards over David Duke.

Well, except for the ones who supported David Duke, right?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

I'll say it: you did. Just like the people of Louisiana had an obligation to vote for Edwin Edwards over David Duke.

Credit to you for having the balls to say it. I can respect that.

But let's say you and I lived in WV, in an economic dead zone. Couldn't you make the same argument to me about Donald Trump? "You have a duty to vote for him because he's the only choice that might help us."

The "obligation" you note changes based on location, background, socioeconomic status, etc. It's relative, based on a laddering of priorities that changes as one moves around the country.

An "obligation" so relative (unless you believe a buffoon like Trump an existential threat to democracy, which is a hysterical view) isn't really an obligation. It's a person with one set of priorities telling someone else who might have a different set what to do.

Trump hasn't changed my life much, and nor would've Hillary. I didn't owe the Rust Belt Forgotten a duty to vote for Trump, and I didn't owe any of my neighbors a duty to vote for Hillary.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Credit to you for having the balls to say it. I can respect that.

But let's say you and I lived in WV, in an economic dead zone. Couldn't you make the same argument to me about Donald Trump? "You have a duty to vote for him because he's the only choice that might help us."

The "obligation" you note changes based on location, background, socioeconomic status, etc. It's relative, based on a laddering of priorities that changes as one moves around the country.

An "obligation" so relative (unless you believe a buffoon like Trump an existential threat to democracy, which is a hysterical view) isn't really an obligation. It's a person with one set of priorities telling someone else who might have a different set what to do.

Trump hasn't changed my life much, and nor would've Hillary. I didn't owe the Rust Belt Forgotten a duty to vote for Trump, and I didn't owe any of my neighbors a duty to vote for Hillary.

I think the "you" that NB was talking about was you- Sebby- not a hypo Pa voter. Baked into that is a belief that you- Sebby- must have realized Trump was a lunatic, and that Hil was the only sane choice, although one you might find distasteful. But if you truly see them sides of the same coin, then you had no "duty."

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I think the "you" that NB was talking about was you- Sebby- not a hypo Pa voter. Baked into that is a belief that you- Sebby- must have realized Trump was a lunatic, and that Hil was the only sane choice, although one you might find distasteful. But if you truly see them sides of the same coin, then you had no "duty."

I was referring to myself. It's always about me.

Pre-election, I was accosted by Right leaners about how Trump was the only acceptable choice because of the Supreme Court. There are a lot of persuasive arguments there. Garland seemed fine to me, but the possibility of additional appointments creating a long term left-leaning court was disturbing. (I'm of the belief we're already brutally overlawyered, over-regulated, and it's bad both culturally and economically.)

I was also accosted by Left leaners making the argument Trump was insane. this was also persuasive, for all of the obvious reasons. I also happen to detest the man. He's bad taste embodied -- everything embarrassing and wrong about our culture in a nutshell.

In the end, neither view was persuasive enough to sway me. Both were, and remain, unacceptable candidates. But I do see a silver lining with Trump. He's such a hot mess, he may be a catalyst for some real reform. He shows the rot of the two party system. He demonstrates the need for serious adults to take the wheel away from ideologues and career politicians.

I don't want a career politician like Hillary to run anything. Nor do I want a buffoonish "businessman" in charge. I'd prefer a competent, measured businessperson with a bit of political experience in charge.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Pre-election, I was accosted by Right leaners about how Trump was the only acceptable choice because of the Supreme Court. There are a lot of persuasive arguments there. Garland seemed fine to me, but the possibility of additional appointments creating a long term left-leaning court was disturbing. (I'm of the belief we're already brutally overlawyered, over-regulated, and it's bad both culturally and economically.)

I have come to think that the importance of control over the Supreme Court is way overstated, especially to partisans and lawyers. But even if you accept that control over the Supreme Court is important for some reasons, the reason that you think the Supreme Court is important is absolutely overstated. If (if) we are over-lawyered and over-regulated, it's not because of decisions that the Supreme Court made, and it's not going to change because Neil Gorsuch is on the court instead of Merrick Garland.

Once again, you reveal a strong affinity for conservative arguments, and and uncanny ability to try to dress them up in reasons that might be plausible to non-conservatives. You probably could make some money with that skill.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Credit to you for having the balls to say it. I can respect that.

But let's say you and I lived in WV, in an economic dead zone. Couldn't you make the same argument to me about Donald Trump? "You have a duty to vote for him because he's the only choice that might help us."

The "obligation" you note changes based on location, background, socioeconomic status, etc. It's relative, based on a laddering of priorities that changes as one moves around the country.

An "obligation" so relative (unless you believe a buffoon like Trump an existential threat to democracy, which is a hysterical view) isn't really an obligation. It's a person with one set of priorities telling someone else who might have a different set what to do.

Trump hasn't changed my life much, and nor would've Hillary. I didn't owe the Rust Belt Forgotten a duty to vote for Trump, and I didn't owe any of my neighbors a duty to vote for Hillary.

What a crock of shit. What is Trump going to do for WVa?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

What a crock of shit. What is Trump going to do for WVa?

Facepalm.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Facepalm.

Well, what will he do for them? Bring back coal? (sound of riotous laughter) Help with the opioid crisis? (Oh, dear God, crack me up!) Reduce taxes on working people?

Ain't nothing he's going to do for them. Nothing at all.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Well, what will he do for them? Bring back coal? (sound of riotous laughter) Help with the opioid crisis? (Oh, dear God, crack me up!) Reduce taxes on working people?

Ain't nothing he's going to do for them. Nothing at all.

I got it. You're preaching to the choir there.

But the facepalm is because we were talking about what a coal miner in WV assumed prior to election. Those poor bastards either believed Trump, or assumed that any faint glimmer of hope was better than no hope at all.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I got it. You're preaching to the choir there.

But the facepalm is because we were talking about what a coal miner in WV assumed prior to election. Those poor bastards either believed Trump, or assumed that any faint glimmer of hope was better than no hope at all.

And people think North Koreans might be brainwashed.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

But the facepalm is because we were talking about what a coal miner in WV assumed prior to election. Those poor bastards either believed Trump, or assumed that any faint glimmer of hope was better than no hope at all.

You assumed it. You. Are you a coal miner in WV?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

But let's say you and I lived in WV, in an economic dead zone. Couldn't you make the same argument to me about Donald Trump? "You have a duty to vote for him because he's the only choice that might help us."

You drooling imbecile, you still don't get that he's not going to help them??

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

You drooling imbecile, you still don't get that he's not going to help them??

We're talking pre-election assumptions, jackass.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Credit to you for having the balls to say it. I can respect that.

But let's say you and I lived in WV, in an economic dead zone. Couldn't you make the same argument to me about Donald Trump? "You have a duty to vote for him because he's the only choice that might help us."

The "obligation" you note changes based on location, background, socioeconomic status, etc. It's relative, based on a laddering of priorities that changes as one moves around the country.

An "obligation" so relative (unless you believe a buffoon like Trump an existential threat to democracy, which is a hysterical view) isn't really an obligation. It's a person with one set of priorities telling someone else who might have a different set what to do.

Trump hasn't changed my life much, and nor would've Hillary. I didn't owe the Rust Belt Forgotten a duty to vote for Trump, and I didn't owe any of my neighbors a duty to vote for Hillary.

No one else was talking about obligation. That was your word. Those scare quotes are around something that you said.