Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

How timely. I will be in Vancouver, Jasper, Banff and Calgary next week. I can look for all the colours and flavours I can find at the theatre organisation and by by cheque, eh?

I clicked on that page and thought I was back in 2002 again.

Icky from Doha on his way to Bangkok

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

Can you buy your own airplane?

Sorry all my money goes to paying for my boss’s G5.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

I clicked on that page and thought I was back in 2002 again.

Icky from Doha on his way to Bangkok

Tell me how Bangkok is - I'm going to be there in 2 weeks.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

We need the market to fall to 15k and masssive forced debt forgiveness to have honest economy and give the kids a chance.

Seems like maybe we should be talking about ways of achieving the debt forgiveness goal that don't require massive pain that will include kids experiencing highly levels and longer period of unemployment, that will put them in a hole not dissimilar to their debt.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Seems like maybe we should be talking about ways of achieving the debt forgiveness goal that don't require massive pain that will include kids experiencing highly levels and longer period of unemployment, that will put them in a hole not dissimilar to their debt.

Most of that debt is held by or guaranteed by the govt. It'd just be another trillion on the 22 trillion pile. If we believe that the national debt doesn't matter much, and there are compelling arguments that's true, why not just let the millenials off the hook and drive all those wasted debt repayments they're making into the broader, productive (non-rentier) economy?

As to the private student loan lenders, caveat emptor. The kind of bottom feeder who seeks to lend to kids because the debt is non-dischargeable is exactly the kind of rentier who should lose everything.

It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than saddling these kids with so much debt they can never participate meaningfully in the economy (limited consumer spending ability, no chance of buying a home, no chance of affording lids or those kids' educations, etc.).

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Most of that debt is held by or guaranteed by the govt. It'd just be another trillion on the 22 trillion pile. If we believe that the national debt doesn't matter much, and there are compelling arguments that's true, why not just let the millenials off the hook and drive all those wasted debt repayments they're making into the broader, productive (non-rentier) economy?

As to the private student loan lenders, caveat emptor. The kind of bottom feeder who seeks to lend to kids because the debt is non-dischargeable is exactly the kind of rentier who should lose everything.

It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than saddling these kids with so much debt they can never participate meaningfully in the economy (limited consumer spending ability, no chance of buying a home, no chance of affording lids or those kids' educations, etc.).

Yeah, it's not the debt forgiveness part I disagree with.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Beto: Vacant media darling, McCandidate

What is it (beside the inside of your asshole from which you pulled this analysis) that makes you think he's vacant? I've listened to him and he is very smart and thoughtful.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Adder

I do not know know what "should have been" means in this context.

I take you to be saying that your sense of fairness tells you that some process is due before he is punished. I don't disagree.

But he wasn't punished and the question was a political one, not a legal one. Politically, he was in an untenable position. Fairness and due process don't come into it.

I think you are intentionally shutting your eyes to the reality of what happened in order to avoid the conversation and to suit your opinion.

The story and the photo came out. It looked bad and got a lot of attention. Franken was on his heels. More accusers came out--some of them completely anonymous. He denied some of the claims made and asked for an investigation/hearing. A ground swell emerged which Gillibrand was the first, loudest, and most frequent critic leading the charge to have him step down. I'm sure he was asked to do it in private as well, but who knows. He left.

If you're going to lean on the fact that (i) he's a politician and wasn't being convicted so he doesn't deserve a hearing/investigation and/or (ii) he decided not to fight the entire Democratic Party during the height of the #MeToo Movement under the tremendous pressure exerted on him by his fellow party members, that's fine. You just come off as a disingenuous jackass who is trying to justify what happened because you agree with the outcome.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Tell me how Bangkok is - I'm going to be there in 2 weeks.

Disappointing. Aside from great and cheap hotels, some decent temples, and some awesome restaurants, there isn't much more. Great Peking duck, though. I think we went to Fei Ya, but I'm not entirely sure that's correct. It was on the second floor of some fancy hotel.

TM

[Adder]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I think you are intentionally shutting your eyes to the reality of what happened in order to avoid the conversation and to suit your opinion.

The story and the photo came out. It looked bad and got a lot of attention. Franken was on his heels. More accusers came out--some of them completely anonymous. He denied some of the claims made and asked for an investigation/hearing. A ground swell emerged which Gillibrand was the first, loudest, and most frequent critic leading the charge to have him step down. I'm sure he was asked to do it in private as well, but who knows. He left.

If you're going to lean on the fact that (i) he's a politician and wasn't being convicted so he doesn't deserve a hearing/investigation and/or (ii) he decided not to fight the entire Democratic Party during the height of the #MeToo Movement under the tremendous pressure exerted on him by his fellow party members, that's fine. You just come off as a disingenuous jackass who is trying to justify what happened because you agree with the outcome.

TM

Ultimately my point is that because of the politics of the situation, there wasn't another way for this to go.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I think you are intentionally shutting your eyes to the reality of what happened in order to avoid the conversation and to suit your opinion.

The story and the photo came out. It looked bad and got a lot of attention. Franken was on his heels. More accusers came out--some of them completely anonymous. He denied some of the claims made and asked for an investigation/hearing. A ground swell emerged which Gillibrand was the first, loudest, and most frequent critic leading the charge to have him step down. I'm sure he was asked to do it in private as well, but who knows. He left.

If you're going to lean on the fact that (i) he's a politician and wasn't being convicted so he doesn't deserve a hearing/investigation and/or (ii) he decided not to fight the entire Democratic Party during the height of the #MeToo Movement under the tremendous pressure exerted on him by his fellow party members, that's fine. You just come off as a disingenuous jackass who is trying to justify what happened because you agree with the outcome.

TM

Here's the thing. I think we ought to hold elected officials to a high standard, and that multiple credible charges of truly bad behavior (whether or not criminal, and especially if that bad behavior relates to racism, sexism, or sexual assault) can (and generally should) sufficiently impair someone's qualification for the office, credibility, and ability to their job that it makes sense for them to step aside.

Should we be giving Northam or Fairfax some process or hearing before they step down? I'd say giving a little time to verify the credibility of the accusers and the underlying facts is often a good idea, because sometimes the crazy stuff that comes out first is misleading. And some degree of forgiveness should be afforded for old incidents where there is true contrition.

Franken's case is tough because I do think he showed contrition; but for that, I'm good with him being gone, and I don't know what there was that might have kept coming out if he remained in the spotlight - he made the choice to go. The incidents involved Franken were pretty gross and fully credible. I' just don't feel that contrition in Northam's case, and I just haven't paid enough attention yet to Fairfax.

One way or another, Virginia deserves not to have leaders with a cloud over their head and a proven record of being jackasses, so they need to figure it out.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

“What about Sherrod Brown!?!” asks the product of a union-proud, JFK/RFK worshipping family in the Ancestral Homeland.

Because he's just that forgettable.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

What is it (beside the inside of your asshole from which you pulled this analysis) that makes you think he's vacant? I've listened to him and he is very smart and thoughtful.

TM

He checks all the right boxes, and he's charismatic. But it's all general and has that "engineered by handlers" polish to it. I don't see him competing with the likes of Harris or Warren when they get into the weeds. I think Booker would school him on policy as well, and Brown certainly could.

Nice guy, good ideas, but too young. You can be a bit green when you're as gifted as Obama. Beto is no Obama.

In a few more years, with some offices under his belt, Beto will be a contender. But I think he was more a shiny object for the media last cycle (He can beat Cruz, the most hated man in DC!) than a serious political force.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Yeah, it's not the debt forgiveness part I disagree with.

If the national debt doesn't matter, and you don't object to debt forgiveness, what's the issue?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

I clicked on that page and thought I was back in 2002 again.

Icky from Doha on his way to Bangkok

I hear Doha is quite nice. Creepy in terms of naked opulence.

A family member who was there for a few weeks recently asked how they could have a mosque with actual gold leafing. The reply from a guide was, Because no one needs to steal.

That and they cut off your hand if you do.