Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Here's the thing, if it only takes one woman to fry, every man is toast.

I’m going to say it again: stop portraying career implications with death. It’s inherently obfuscating. And it’s exactly the rhetoric used to undermine Title IX attempts to take campus assaults more seriously.

The real war is further from the spotlight, and a man talking about his take like Damon helps others sort out their own world, doesn't it?

To the extent he takes it seriously, sure.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

1. No it’s not. It’s whether there’s enough to get to a hearing or trial. If this is limbo, it’s putting the bar just shy of a basketball rim.

2. Let’s say a group of people suffered adverse action because they all joined in circulating the same thing. Looks like they were all targeted. In reality, truth is, people from the same backgrounds tend to have exclusive groups where they communicate things (sometimes prohibited things) with each other.

Half of litigation is getting paid where it’s undeserved and getting nothing where payment is deserved. Hence my enormous respect for the law.

The more you talk about it, the more deserved it sounds.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

I guess. But I’m seeing a lot more “Franken isn’t Moore” which is certainly selection bias. Regardless, I’m not seeing anyone say that Franken must be held accountable because he’s just like Moore.

Franken should stay through investigation. The man's been summarily served a professional death sentence based on a photo.

It was a bad photo. But this "If you violate the current subject of most outrage, you must be exiled" shit is overkill. The guy's far more than his worst moment. Most of it quite positive for women.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Franken should stay through investigation.

There was an argument for that before he decided to resign. Now? Only if you think “women are liars” is a narrative that needs enabling.

Al gets it. So it’s moot anyway.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Franken should stay through investigation. The man's been summarily served a professional death sentence based on a photo.

It was a bad photo. But this "If you violate the current subject of most outrage, you must be exiled" shit is overkill. The guy's far more than his worst moment. Most of it quite positive for women.

He’s not dead. His career isn’t even necessarily dead. Stop suggesting that violating women’s bodies is a small thing while professional consequences are death. It’s the misogyny you’re looking for.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

He’s not dead. His career isn’t even necessarily dead. Stop suggesting that violating women’s bodies is a small thing while professional consequences are death. It’s the misogyny you’re looking for.

Stop suggesting a good senator should concede his career for misbehaviors deserving of far less sanction.

Was what he did offensive and stupid? Yes. Is it deserving of loss of his senate seat? Based on allegations to date, unequivocally not.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Stop suggesting a good senator should concede his career for misbehaviors deserving of far less sanction.

Was what he did offensive and stupid? Yes. Is it deserving of loss of his senate seat? Based on allegations to date, unequivocally not.

Says the dude.

It's not up to us. It's especially not up to us when the options are taking sexual misconduct seriously or dismissing it.

In a future world that makes fine decisions about the seriousness of types of misconduct, maybe it would be different. We're nit there. Today it's okay or not okay, and Al's alleged conduct isn't okay.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

The guy's far more than his worst moment. Most of it quite positive for women.

How is it positive? If I say I support the equal rights amendment at work i can grab titty at night? When a "hero" of equal rights does something like that it is empowering to the knuckle dragging crowd,

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

I’m going to say it again: stop portraying career implications with death. It’s inherently obfuscating. And it’s exactly the rhetoric used to undermine Title IX attempts to take campus assaults more seriously.

Ok. Thanks.

[SEC_Chick]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

That having been said, I think the most profound think Driver said was that this really is the time for men to listen rather than speak, and I should stop now.

[Followed by 3 more pages of only men discussing these issues]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

It is very hard, isn't it, to be quiet and deferential? I have trouble with it. I wonder how so many women managed to handle it for so long without going crazy?

It seems to be quite hard for you.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Meh. I listen to enough men. All day. And I speak plenty. It's hard to shut me up a lot of the time.

Yes. It appears so.

I honestly don't have a strong about the ability of men to have or advocate for whatever opinions they hold on a lot of this sexual misconduct stuff, but I actually prefer it when men just act as they used to, rather than act pretty much the same way, but adopting an I'm With Her persona.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Who you picking? One of the 50% of white women that voted for Trump?

Last night my wife and my daughter, two very strong women (both me too people), had a fight over whether Franken deserved better. Here's the thing, if it only takes one woman to fry, every man is toast. And not just on the underlying behavior, which is all vile, but the nuance with which you discuss it?

And it's all fun when it's big hollywood and political types going up in flames, but that same standard won't apply to Acme Welding and McDonald's franchises in Iowa and those are the places where the volume problems lie. And if there isn't some way for men to understand how can we expect it to get better?

See, my wife and daughter's "me too" men were not in congress and have never been nominated for an Oscar. The real war is further from the spotlight, and a man talking about his take like Damon helps others sort out their own world, doesn't it?

I'm looking forward to seeing this hit law firms and legal departments. There are no shortage of worthy candidates for a public flogging.

One of the things that aggravates me immensely are the surveys of why women leave law firms. Most of them don't include questions about overt discrimination, harassment, assault or rape. They regularly ask about "unintentional discrimination". The Canadian Bar just did one that included harassment. Guess what?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

[Followed by 3 more pages of only men discussing these issues]



It seems to be quite hard for you.



Yes. It appears so.

I was trying to respond while adequately appreciating the irony.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

How is it positive? If I say I support the equal rights amendment at work i can grab titty at night? When a "hero" of equal rights does something like that it is empowering to the knuckle dragging crowd,

For the 100th time, if we’re to approach this issue seriously, the punishment must fit the crime. That’s a universal notion to be applied to all behavior, no?

Franken has been sentenced excessively and hastily.

And no - it’s not okay to apply overly harsh judgment because he’s a public figure. In the legal realm, that’s selective sentencing. That prosecutors and courts engage in it under the rationalization it deters malfeasance does not make it right. Our courts’ and legislatures’ acceptance of that line of reasoning is disturbing, and underscores how demented our civil and criminal justice systems are.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

[Followed by 3 more pages of only men discussing these issues]



It seems to be quite hard for you.



Yes. It appears so.

I honestly don't have a strong about the ability of men to have or advocate for whatever opinions they hold on a lot of this sexual misconduct stuff, but I actually prefer it when men just act as they used to, rather than act pretty much the same way, but adopting an I'm With Her persona.

Virtue signaling = The new plastic fantastic morality

Get with the program. It’s all about self branding, about telecasting knowledge of an issue and self-aggrandizing open-mindedness, or bigoted closed-mindedness, but offering no reasonable solution. No one gives a fuck about serious solutions to anything anymore. Hell, they haven’t for a long fucking time.

“I’m a proud deplorable! Fox News! Fuck yeah!”

“I’m with the pink hats! Revolution! Overturn patriarchy.”

“I’m for awareness of all kinds, generally! I’m enlightened. Where can I march?”

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Adder

He’s not dead. His career isn’t even necessarily dead. Stop suggesting that violating women’s bodies is a small thing while professional consequences are death. It’s the misogyny you’re looking for.

Question: If he decided to run for Senate again, is he "eligible" in your opinion? Not asking how'd you vote (although I'd be curious since you believe he gets it now). Just wondering if, since he needed to step down, that means he's no longer qualified for the position ever. Or is it just about political effectiveness--as you say--such that if he's voted back in that point goes away?

TM