We are all Slave now.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

not an answer, but thanks for not calling me a troll? Earlier you were saying things are becoming global, but now these things aren't? Your source for Europe's fear of terrorism is? In UK and DE it is about countries letting immigrants into the EU, have you read about what Germany is doing? Italy is the entry point- but at least for the near term, no more.

Not sure where we are not communicating. "Earlier I was saying things are becoming global" -- what are you referring to? From the time I have spent in Europe and talking to Europeans over the last several years, I perceive Europeans as less motivated by a fear of terrorism than Americans. YMMV. I perceive UK residents as particularly upset by citizens of other EU countries (e.g., Poland and Rumania), who do not need permission to move to London. That's in contrast to countries such as Germany, Italy and Greece, where the bigger issue is refugees from outside Europe. Germany has been relatively welcoming, but it does not have a Mediterranean port. Greece and Italy have been forced to bear the brunt of the refugee crisis by other EU countries.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Do you think the history of race slavery makes a difference in the US?

Or that the history of pograms and the holocaust makes a difference in Europe?

In the UK, what do you think about the anti-Polish sentiment there as compared to, say, African immigration or Indian immigration?

huh? Italy is locking its borders- threatening to begin deporting people there. Sweden is declaring immigrant neighborhoods ghettos, and requiring muslin immigrant in those neighborhoods to send their kids to Swedish schools to learn about Christmas. And Germany is locking non-EU peeps from crossing its borders from other EU countries.

Don't ask me questions- tell me how this is diff from our current hate in the US.

[SEC_Chick]

Meh on the SCOTUS pick. At least it wasn’t Hardiman, but Kavanaugh was the weakest of the top three. As much as I loved Kethledge for calling asset forfeiture “theft”, Barrett would have been the home run.

Oh well. Still better than anyone HRC would have nominated.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

Meh on the SCOTUS pick. At least it wasn’t Hardiman, but Kavanaugh was the weakest of the top three. As much as I loved Kethledge for calling asset forfeiture “theft”, Barrett would have been the home run.

Oh well. Still better than anyone HRC would have nominated.

Well, we'll see what the hearings bring. So what questions do people have for him?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

huh? Italy is locking its borders- threatening to begin deporting people there. Sweden is declaring immigrant neighborhoods ghettos, and requiring muslin immigrant in those neighborhoods to send their kids to Swedish schools to learn about Christmas. And Germany is locking non-EU peeps from crossing its borders from other EU countries.

Don't ask me questions- tell me how this is diff from our current hate in the US.

Sometimes it's more important to figure it out.

Of course I could give you all the answers, every one, if I wanted to, but in the long term, you'll thank me.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Well, we'll see what the hearings bring. So what questions do people have for him?

What is your typical refractory period? #iffringeywereasenator

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Well, we'll see what the hearings bring. So what questions do people have for him?

How many times did Trump make you declare personal loyalty before he announced your nomination?

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Well, we'll see what the hearings bring. So what questions do people have for him?

Shanty or lace-curtain?

Will you rely upon the intent of the founders in interpreting phrases like “due process” and “equal protection under the law”?

Who, specifically, do you believe are the Founders? Is Jefferson a Founder? The authors of the Federalist Papers? The Anti-Federalist Papers?

How does the Court’s holding in Griswold v Connecticut square with the text of Constitution? With the Founders’ intent?

Why do you look like my cousin Patrick? Are you also a smug over-fed Realtor who serves cheap Canadian whiskey to your family while you drink the hidden (not any more, fuckface - your anarchist daughter from Vassar and I found it on Easter) Jameson Caskmates?

As a white Catholic straight dude, should I join the GOP for a federal court appointment? I mean, that’s really my only shot, right?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Last week was tough for me. The family beach house (my wife's side) had a couple very empowered feeling Trumpsters in it.

One of them was talking about how great his recent stint of grand jury duty was because he realized the small Northern city he lives in effectively has cameras everyone, so almost every crime that came before them had tape. My wife brought up the social credit policy and monitoring and he thought it was a truly wonderful thing, and that every "ghetto" (apparently Trumpsters use the word ghetto again, truly bringing back the 60s) should be so monitored.

Of course, he didn't think it was needed in his suburb.

I don't throw "treasonous" around a lot. But if you think it's good to have cameras everywhere, or just in the "ghettos," you're supporting treasonous notions.

I believe a politician who would suggest a surveillance state is so anti-American, such anathema to every basic notion of freedom we've held, that I would openly support and hope for armed rebellion against him.

You're clearly a kinder and more patient sort than me. I've had to leave the room where people made the argument, "The govt can I spy on me... I have nothing to hide," in response to NSA snooping on citizens. I'd probably wind up in a fistfight with someone telling me he was happy to have cameras everywhere - particularly in the "bad areas" of town (where those with enhanced melanin presumably reside).

If you believe that govt surveillance of citizens without a warrant is okay, or that we should have a 24/7 surveillance state (a precursor to Minority Report dystopia), you aren't an American. You don't have a fucking clue what it means to be an American. You violate Franklin's Rule 1 of America Club: Sacrificing liberty for safety. You're a danger to the Republic and the diametrical opposite of a "patriot." ...Though I'm sure you love to refer to yourself as such.

I'd like to say I'd deport you. But I wouldn't. Because as much as I'd like to see you suffer a variety of indignities, you've a right to spew dumb, vile, and treasonous notions. It's in that Constitution you claim to keep in your back pocket.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Across the western world, you see conservative political parties turning away from support for free markets, and turning towards controls on free movement and trade. I'm not sure why you are focused on Putin -- he may try to abet and exploit this shift, but it's not about him. Actually, I would suggest that conservative support for free markets in the second half of the last century came out of the marriage of corporate interests and opposition to Communism, and once the Soviet Union fell apart and ceased to be a major threat, corporate interests alone were not enough to keep conservative parties oriented to free trade. Trump recognized the political potential in opposing free trade, but it's not just him -- it's also Brexit, and similar movements in other developed countries.

Free trade may have a lot of benefits for a lot of people, but those benefits are pretty diffused and can be hard to see. The whole Brexit episode should demonstrate that the stupidity of closing borders may not be an obstacle.

Conservative parties tend to be near entirely co-opted by corporate interests. I see no lack of enthusiasm for free trade there.

I think you're describing a fracture among conservative voters, where the workers in those parties, realizing globalization is not a great deal for them, are becoming populists. Sometimes, these workers, having the power of votes, overcome the power of corporate donors. Sometimes not. Sometimes, the little guys vote in a guy like Trump, who tries to satisfy both corporate interests (tax cuts) and populists (tariffs) at the same time.

I'd bet everything I own on free trade winning the day of over balkanization. The money's too big here, and the economic forces and actors too powerful and diffuse.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

huh? Italy is locking its borders- threatening to begin deporting people there. Sweden is declaring immigrant neighborhoods ghettos, and requiring muslin immigrant in those neighborhoods to send their kids to Swedish schools to learn about Christmas. And Germany is locking non-EU peeps from crossing its borders from other EU countries.

Don't ask me questions- tell me how this is diff from our current hate in the US.

Race hatred directed toward blacks here is a very different thing, for reasons I don't think I need to explain.

Hatred of Muslims here is indistinguishable from that expressed in Europe. In both cases, natives fear radicals and believe Muslims do not assimilate well.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Race hatred directed toward blacks here is a very different thing, for reasons I don't think I need to explain.

Hatred of Muslims here is indistinguishable from that expressed in Europe. In both cases, natives fear radicals and believe Muslims do not assimilate well.

most of the immigrants, especially the muslims, impacted in Europe are African. what i know of race hate in europe is that it isn't all that different from here, as directed. the French hate African blacks but think american blacks are fine. But I was asking about US immigration response, not whether the blight of slavery raises issues about African Americans that Europe doesn't have.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Conservative parties tend to be near entirely co-opted by corporate interests. I see no lack of enthusiasm for free trade there.

You've got to be joking. The Rs have completely abandoned free trade. One of my trumpster relatives at the beach (and, by the way, I hid out at work some of the week to avoid dealing with them - had lunch in town most days with sane people...) last week was going on and on about how exciting it was that we can win a trade war, how our big trade deficit with China gives us lots of leverage, it may hurt a few people but would benefit everyone overall....

The Republicans aren't coming back to free trade. That ship has sailed (after paying tariffs, of course).

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I was asking about US immigration response, not whether the blight of slavery raises issues about African Americans that Europe doesn't have.

I don't see any EU countries making efforts to find and remove people who have been living there for years. Maybe it's happening in places like Poland and Hungary where the domestic politics are different. OTOH, in the UK you have some parallel with people (especially citizens of other EU countries) running into obstacles with the Home Office, but even so the Home Office is nothing like ICE. There is a cruelty for the sake of cruelty here that I don't see there.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

You've got to be joking. The Rs have completely abandoned free trade. One of my trumpster relatives at the beach (and, by the way, I hid out at work some of the week to avoid dealing with them - had lunch in town most days with sane people...) last week was going on and on about how exciting it was that we can win a trade war, how our big trade deficit with China gives us lots of leverage, it may hurt a few people but would benefit everyone overall....

The Republicans aren't coming back to free trade. That ship has sailed (after paying tariffs, of course).

I had an unusual and unfortunate exposure to CNBC yesterday during which a panel mostly agreed we were "winning" a trade war with China.

People are stupid.