We are all Slave now.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Adder

Wait, you think "state's rights" is primarily about economics?

For a state like California, Republican control of the federal government means that we pay much more in federal taxes than we get in federal spending, but the federal government does not give us a deduction for state taxes, in an effort to punish state spending. I'm not saying Republicans are completely responsible for this (it also has to do with the small state's clout in the Senate, which we have been discussing, and there are Democrats in small states), but in the last two years they have made the problem worse not better. The question is why Sebby believes *at all* that Republicans have some principled interest in states' rights. Obviously, they don't. They have a principled interest in using government to benefit their constituents, and any interest in states' rights goes away when they can use the federal government to do something they want to do. Likewise, we heard a lot about deficits during the Obama Administration, and the same conservatives are now fine running massive deficits. There is no mystery about why Republicans say these things. The mystery is why anyone still believes them.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

HC's multiplier does not compete with infrastructure jobs in terms of breadth. Good infrastructure projects using union wages pay really well and create temporary and permanent development around them. If you put a simple highway exchange in in the right locale, with the right utility links and permits to foster easy add-ons, you can basically create a small community from scratch.

This isn't to say ACA jobs aren't worth growing, and don't have a solid multiplier effect. I just tend to see HC as a more parasitic industry. It sucks out a ton of consumer dollars that'd otherwise be spent elsewhere in the economy. Infrastructure and development around it tend to create more opportunities for spending in a broader number of areas.

I'll grant you infrastructure jobs likely pay better, but by definition they are also temporary.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

For a state like California, Republican control of the federal government means that we pay much more in federal taxes than we get in federal spending, but the federal government does not give us a deduction for state taxes, in an effort to punish state spending.

Yeah, I prepaid my 2018 property taxes last year too.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

I'll grant you infrastructure jobs likely pay better, but by definition they are also temporary.

They leave a solid number of permanent jobs in their wake without diverting a disproportionate number of dollars to one area, like HC does. You do an interchange and you send dollars to local quarries, material suppliers, fabricators, a&e, builders, etc. As this creates further commercial development, you get more jobs in those areas, but from varied firms with unique specialties. To the extent you use local financing, you help local banking community. It's a creative cycle with a decent mix of decent term temp jobs and perm jobs.

Preventative HC is a positive growth industry. But that's not where the real money is in HC. The money in HC in this country is in symptom treatment, management, and therapies. That form of HC creates jobs, but only within HC.

...A lot of preventative HC is eating well and getting exercise, so I don't expect that area to grow a whole hell of a lot.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

They leave a solid number of permanent jobs in their wake without diverting a disproportionate number of dollars to one area, like HC does. You do an interchange and you send dollars to local quarries, material suppliers, fabricators, a&e, builders, etc. As this creates further commercial development, you get more jobs in those areas, but from varied firms with unique specialties. To the extent you use local financing, you help local banking community. It's a creative cycle with a decent mix of decent term temp jobs and perm jobs.

Preventative HC is a positive growth industry. But that's not where the real money is in HC. The money in HC in this country is in symptom treatment, management, and therapies. That form of HC creates jobs, but only within HC.

...A lot of preventative HC is eating well and getting exercise, so I don't expect that area to grow a whole hell of a lot.

You seem to have left the consumables and devices out of your health care thinking. And innovation.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I see all of these bullshit stories about the threat to America from a bunch of Hondurans walking through Mexico, stories full of lies designed to change the conversation in the two weeks before Election Day away from healthcare and taxes and the way people hate what the Republican Congress has been doing, and I think to myself, Why? Why do the Democrats who Sebby says control the mainstream media keep telling their lackeys to run this crap? It's almost enough to make me vote for a Republican.

[BackInTheNewYorkGroove]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I see all of these bullshit stories about the threat to America from a bunch of Hondurans walking through Mexico, stories full of lies designed to change the conversation in the two weeks before Election Day away from healthcare and taxes and the way people hate what the Republican Congress has been doing, and I think to myself, Why? Why do the Democrats who Sebby says control the mainstream media keep telling their lackeys to run this crap? It's almost enough to make me vote for a Republican.

My dislike of Andrew Cuomo has grown to such a deep and visceral level that I am almost certainly voting for his Republican opponent, a typical New York GOP-er from Dutchess County whose name I always have to Google. I’ve decided just to call him “George Pataki.”

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I see all of these bullshit stories about the threat to America from a bunch of Hondurans walking through Mexico, stories full of lies designed to change the conversation in the two weeks before Election Day away from healthcare and taxes and the way people hate what the Republican Congress has been doing, and I think to myself, Why? Why do the Democrats who Sebby says control the mainstream media keep telling their lackeys to run this crap? It's almost enough to make me vote for a Republican.

That the dumb bastards keep taking the bait doesn’t mean they aren’t biased. It’s their bias that makes them so predictable.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

For a state like California, Republican control of the federal government means that we pay much more in federal taxes than we get in federal spending, but the federal government does not give us a deduction for state taxes, in an effort to punish state spending. I'm not saying Republicans are completely responsible for this (it also has to do with the small state's clout in the Senate, which we have been discussing, and there are Democrats in small states), but in the last two years they have made the problem worse not better. The question is why Sebby believes *at all* that Republicans have some principled interest in states' rights. Obviously, they don't. They have a principled interest in using government to benefit their constituents, and any interest in states' rights goes away when they can use the federal government to do something they want to do. Likewise, we heard a lot about deficits during the Obama Administration, and the same conservatives are now fine running massive deficits. There is no mystery about why Republicans say these things. The mystery is why anyone still believes them.

I don’t believe Rs have any principles left. (I think Ds have just next to none.)

I’m merely saying, if giving a foolish man what he wants teaches him a lesson, give it to him.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

That the dumb bastards keep taking the bait doesn’t mean they aren’t biased. It’s their bias that makes them so predictable.

That response would have something to do with anything if I had somehow suggested they aren't biased, but that is the exact opposite of what I think, as you would know if you recalled anything I've ever said about the subject.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I don’t believe Rs have any principles left. (I think Ds have just next to none.)

I’m merely saying, if giving a foolish man what he wants teaches him a lesson, give it to him.

Taking their lies seriously doesn't teach them anything, because there are no penalties for hypocrisy. You only encourage them to keep lying. Hey -- look! -- America is in danger from Middle Eastern terrorists in a caravan of illegal immigrants headed towards Texas!

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

I'll grant you infrastructure jobs likely pay better, but by definition they are also temporary.

Depends on location and whether they are union or not. If you look at the red states where a lot of unions have been busted, infrastructure jobs can include a lot of pretty marginal ones.

We desperately need investment in infrastructure, but the economic impact of that spending has been heading downward for some time.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by BackInTheNewYorkGroove

My dislike of Andrew Cuomo has grown to such a deep and visceral level that I am almost certainly voting for his Republican opponent, a typical New York GOP-er from Dutchess County whose name I always have to Google. I’ve decided just to call him “George Pataki.”

Your best bet here is that Molinaro is just too dumb to be as crooked as he'd like to be.

It was tough, but the Republicans managed to find someone worse than Cuomo.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

You seem to have left the consumables and devices out of your health care thinking. And innovation.

HC is a massive beast with every kind of element in it. In a world where bricks and mortar retail is dying, the pharmacies and urgent care facilities are one of the few growth sectors. HC finance ranges from tax exempt bonds for nursing homes and hospitals to venture investment for biotech to medical office building REITs and bank financing for all the manufacturers and service providers.

Sebby's just being a dumbass.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Depends on location and whether they are union or not. If you look at the red states where a lot of unions have been busted, infrastructure jobs can include a lot of pretty marginal ones.

We desperately need investment in infrastructure, but the economic impact of that spending has been heading downward for some time.

A good hunk of the infrastructure jobs down here are taken by the people in the caravan. https://www.npr.org/2013/04/11/17677...les-doesnt-pay

And apparently it's not just us. https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...wa-california/