Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

How about Aliens? I'd love to have that to look forward to you. Jel.

I don't do scary movies.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I don't do scary movies.

But you watched West Wing?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

And Huckabee isn't doing anything unique. She's just doing it less cleverly then many predecessors, without plausible deniability.

Hey, Sebby. Read the first six or seven paragraphs of this. And then tell me that Trump isn't really doing anything different from what Obama did, he's just doing it moreso. Tell me you really believe that.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

But you watched West Wing?

I find it hard to believe that anyone has watched that show as much as Ms. Slothrop, often when I have been in the room.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

So ... almost all of our prisons when someone can't pay the fine or bail.

I forgot that Americans are not too good with subtlety.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I think it's great that Trump wants to do a big parade. Off all the things he could spend his time doing, that one has to be about the least dangerous.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by greatwhitenorthchick

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're talking about, but an image of debtor's prison out of Dickens just popped into my head. To be clear, not in a good way.

I think you've grasped it. I am advocating actions which demonstrate to all Americans the lack of power behind the enforcement mechanisms used to compel people to honor contracts and pay debts.

I don't think everyone should do this. Only the people complaining about inequality, or who are suffering under "odious" (term of art) debts. People who are the victims of rentier capitalists.

Those people complain and complain about inequality, and yet they take no action to remedy it.

A contract is only as good as one's ability to enforce it. If millions of Americans struggling to make ends meet decided to refuse to pay their debts, the system would be compelled to admit that it cannot compete with mass movements of little people. First, the value of credit ratings would evaporate, as the algorithms aren't constructed to address a mass intentional default. Second, the legal contract enforcement mechanisms - lawsuits, garnishments, etc. - cannot address a mass wave of defaults.

Have you ever said "Make me" when somebody told you to do something, and then they couldn't? Once a bluff is called, the person seeking to compel another to do or not do something is left pretty much powerless.

The system of enforcement of contracts in this country is easily challenged, and could shown to be far weaker than many unsophisticated people grasp.

The only impediment to a mass "bluff calling" which would turn rentier capitalism on its ear is the prisoner's dilemma. The little guy is scared, and he often lacks the education to understand his own leverage. But if he did, and if he could get past that prisoner's dilemma, trust his fellow little people, and they all banded together in a non-violent "financial revolt," you'd see some serious change, seriously fast.

Why else would the finance industry have been so incensed at Occupy? Why else would banks hire infiltrators to sabotage a gathering of largely stoned kids? Why would Goldman's security work with law enforcement to share intel on silly kids in a tent city? Because those hopeless kids had the right idea... just awful execution, and no organization.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I think you've grasped it. I am advocating actions which demonstrate to all Americans the lack of power behind the enforcement mechanisms used to compel people to honor contracts and pay debts.

I don't think everyone should do this. Only the people complaining about inequality, or who are suffering under "odious" (term of art) debts. People who are the victims of rentier capitalists.

Those people complain and complain about inequality, and yet they take no action to remedy it.

A contract is only as good as one's ability to enforce it. If millions of Americans struggling to make ends meet decided to refuse to pay their debts, the system would be compelled to admit that it cannot compete with mass movements of little people. First, the value of credit ratings would evaporate, as the algorithms aren't constructed to address a mass intentional default. Second, the legal contract enforcement mechanisms - lawsuits, garnishments, etc. - cannot address a mass wave of defaults.

Have you ever said "Make me" when somebody told you to do something, and then they couldn't? Once a bluff is called, the person seeking to compel another to do or not do something is left pretty much powerless.

The system of enforcement of contracts in this country is easily challenged, and could shown to be far weaker than many unsophisticated people grasp.

The only impediment to a mass "bluff calling" which would turn rentier capitalism on its ear is the prisoner's dilemma. The little guy is scared, and he often lacks the education to understand his own leverage. But if he did, and if he could get past that prisoner's dilemma, trust his fellow little people, and they all banded together in a non-violent "financial revolt," you'd see some serious change, seriously fast.

Why else would the finance industry have been so incensed at Occupy? Why else would banks hire infiltrators to sabotage a gathering of largely stoned kids? Why would Goldman's security work with law enforcement to share intel on silly kids in a tent city? Because those hopeless kids had the right idea... just awful execution, and no organization.

Yeah, I think the people who are truly judgment proof take this option all the time.

You're talking about people who have something to lose, and that's the problem.

[Adder]

Hey, Ty, did I miss the part where McConnell brought the Dream Act through committee and to the floor for a vote? Or are we still just ignoring how Schumer caved in exchange for nothing?

Also, it's obscene we're further increasing defense spending. If there's one thing we clearly do not need to do...

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

lack of power behind the enforcement mechanisms used to compel people to honor contracts and pay debts.

Now I don't know what planet I'm on. I'll say it again -- debtor's prison. As Less astutely noted, but I thought this was obvious, these institutions exist right now, whether in the form of actual prison or in forces deeply rooted in our institutional systems that prevent people from fully participating in society. What do you mean -- lack of power?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Adder

Hey, Ty, did I miss the part where McConnell brought the Dream Act through committee and to the floor for a vote? Or are we still just ignoring how Schumer caved in exchange for nothing?

Also, it's obscene we're further increasing defense spending. If there's one thing we clearly do not need to do...

Saying he "caved" implies that he gave something up.

Meanwhile, to me this last paragraph from a WaPo story captures the essence of conservatism:

Rep. Mark Walker (R-N.C.), chairman of the Republican Study Committee, a key conservative bloc, tweeted that “the Budget Caps Deal is a struggle for any one with fiscal concerns. However, the longer [Pelosi] bloviates on the House Floor against the deal — the more I’m inclined to support it.”

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Hi friends, I have had a couple of firms reach out to me to sign me up to do short-term consulting about the industry I've been working in. What should my hourly rate be?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Hi friends, I have had a couple of firms reach out to me to sign me up to do short-term consulting about the industry I've been working in. What should my hourly rate be?

Double what you think is fair.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by greatwhitenorthchick

Now I don't know what planet I'm on. I'll say it again -- debtor's prison. As Less astutely noted, but I thought this was obvious, these institutions exist right now, whether in the form of actual prison or in forces deeply rooted in our institutional systems that prevent people from fully participating in society. What do you mean -- lack of power?

You're missing the mass movement component of it. I'm not talking about the millions of people effectively forced off the grid by the system.

I'm talking about the tens of millions living from check to check, totally fucked. People still allowed to be part of society, but effectively struggling debt serfs. When I bought and sold debt I saw thousands upon thousands in a small section of my own state. There are tons of these people.

If these people all got together and refused to pay, the system could not do anything to them. It would have to bargain with them.

The enforcement mechanisms (including the virtual debtors' prisons Less noted) are not designed to address a mass intentional default scenario. They simply don't have the manpower and resources to do so. But to do this would take tens of millions of people together willing to take on a risk, and stick with it. That's a heavy lift, because (1) people don't trust one another, and (2) the enforcement mechanisms can be brutal to any one individual.

You're mistaking the system's ability to scare or punish any one or two individuals with strength adequate to address a mass movement. The former it can do. Regarding the latter, it would fail. And if that bluff were called, what would stop everyone else from testing it?

If the oppressed want a true revolution, that's the only way they can do it. Fighting in the political system, waiting for redistribution? That's just serfs asking for more gruel.

Disobedience is the only thing that works. Ghandi, Havel, the Scots, the ex-Soviet Republics, MLK... what do all successful movements have in common? Disobeying the system. Proving the system isn't as strong as it seems.

But I doubt people will ever do it here. We apply a perfect Huxley fix. Placate them with diversions, video games, opioids. Keep them bickering amongst each other, scapegoating each other. Soma and skirmishes. Works like a charm.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by tyrone slothrop

hi friends, i have had a couple of firms reach out to me to sign me up to do short-term consulting about the industry i've been working in. What should my hourly rate be?

$3,500.00