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Old 11-24-2020, 12:28 PM   #3841
sebastian_dangerfield
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Re: Objectively intelligent.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower View Post
My uncle and his two brothers are the Northeastern/Mid-Atlantic, been-to-university types you describe. All three went to a Catholic university on the Main Line. My other uncle also went to law school there, whereas my father went to business school at a prominent Massachusetts university mostly associated around here with Hank. Both of my uncles are/were hardened bigots and, as I mentioned, my uncle who disowned his daughter was not ostracized or shamed in his professional or personal circles, either when he was in the Greenwich corridor or now (he is in a different Mid-Atlantic state). My father, while far from being proponent of progressive politics, thankfully never exhibited any overt racism that I was aware of, but nor did he challenge his brothers on their racism. I understand that these facts do not fit into your narrative of the world, so you will dismiss them as being outliers. I disagree.
In the spirit of finding points of agreement rather than disagreement, there is undoubtedly a failure on the part of many Northeastern/Mid-Atlantic, been-to-university types to challenge racism.

The preferred approach is not a cut direct or an attack, but staring down at one's drink and politely finding a way to leave out of embarrassment. Or a nervous laugh or changing of the subject, the former being incredibly cowardly, but truth be told, not much more so than the staring at your drink strategy.

I don't have a narrative any more or less than you have a narrative. And perhaps that's the point. YMMV. In my experience, overt racism would cause one to be socially ostracized. I grew up as a little kid hanging out with a gay couple for whose design studio my mother worked (it had a really cool bar in it too). Homophobia was immediately verboten. My grandfather was a bit of anti-Semitic Russian/Pole, but I was always warned not to acquire his views in that regard. And living in a Jewish, Indian, Asian, and Italian neighborhood it was impossible to acquire any other prejudices.

But if you saw me, if you met me, and you were a bigot, you might as some bigots do assume that I'd happily hold forth on xenophobic commentary and jokes. And if you were a hardened progressive, you'd label me a fratty jackass, assume I was a bigot, and avoid me. Many people have made that mistake with me and I think a lot of others like me. But it's wrong -- it's cultural identity politics, a terrible heuristic if it can even be called that. Those generalizations do not and cannot stand for all people of a certain background anymore than your bigoted uncles are an archetype of all country club Republicans.

But in terms of generalizing, I have to take my own medicine. I am not sure that all Trump populists are bigots. I said that, and that's easy to say, but it's also a simplification that allows me to dismiss them. I was wrong to do so.
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Old 11-24-2020, 01:40 PM   #3842
Hank Chinaski
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Re: Objectively intelligent.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
In the spirit of finding points of agreement rather than disagreement, there is undoubtedly a failure on the part of many Northeastern/Mid-Atlantic, been-to-university types to challenge racism.

The preferred approach is not a cut direct or an attack, but staring down at one's drink and politely finding a way to leave out of embarrassment. Or a nervous laugh or changing of the subject, the former being incredibly cowardly, but truth be told, not much more so than the staring at your drink strategy.

I don't have a narrative any more or less than you have a narrative. And perhaps that's the point. YMMV. In my experience, overt racism would cause one to be socially ostracized. I grew up as a little kid hanging out with a gay couple for whose design studio my mother worked (it had a really cool bar in it too). Homophobia was immediately verboten. My grandfather was a bit of anti-Semitic Russian/Pole, but I was always warned not to acquire his views in that regard. And living in a Jewish, Indian, Asian, and Italian neighborhood it was impossible to acquire any other prejudices.

But if you saw me, if you met me, and you were a bigot, you might as some bigots do assume that I'd happily hold forth on xenophobic commentary and jokes. And if you were a hardened progressive, you'd label me a fratty jackass, assume I was a bigot, and avoid me. Many people have made that mistake with me and I think a lot of others like me. But it's wrong -- it's cultural identity politics, a terrible heuristic if it can even be called that. Those generalizations do not and cannot stand for all people of a certain background anymore than your bigoted uncles are an archetype of all country club Republicans.

But in terms of generalizing, I have to take my own medicine. I am not sure that all Trump populists are bigots. I said that, and that's easy to say, but it's also a simplification that allows me to dismiss them. I was wrong to do so.
If Northeastern/Mid-Atlantic, been-to-university types often have to challenge racism, doesn't that mean there ARE a lot of racists?
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Old 11-24-2020, 02:24 PM   #3843
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Re: Objectively intelligent.

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A lot of the moderate GOP would welcome minorities.
I bet this is right.

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Old 11-24-2020, 03:30 PM   #3844
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Re: Objectively intelligent.

Welp, my son got himself infected. Who could have guessed that living in a frat house would be high-risk?
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Old 11-24-2020, 03:33 PM   #3845
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Re: Objectively intelligent.

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I bet this is right.

I did snicker out loud, but you know the GOP is more varied in views than that. There are lots of Republicans out there who have been talking about the need to be more inclusive for years, and they are sincere.

Even if it is largely about saving tax dollars, they honestly want others, of all backgrounds, to also avoid paying taxes along with them.
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Old 11-24-2020, 04:42 PM   #3846
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Re: Objectively intelligent.

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Welp, my son got himself infected. Who could have guessed that living in a frat house would be high-risk?
Sorry, man. My daughter got through it reasonably easy and I hope he will, too. Being young doesn't hurt.

Plus side: he won't need to quarantine when he comes home.
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:07 PM   #3847
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Re: Objectively intelligent.

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Welp, my son got himself infected. Who could have guessed that living in a frat house would be high-risk?
Hope it goes well. In the last few weeks this has gone from “I know it is wide spread but I don’t actually know anyone with it,” to my sister’s fam has it.

Meanwhile my FIL passed (not from COVID) with every call between him and my wife the last 8 months being “when can I see my daughter?” “Hopefully soon.”

Turns out nope.
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Old 11-25-2020, 12:49 AM   #3848
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Re: Objectively intelligent.

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If Northeastern/Mid-Atlantic, been-to-university types often have to challenge racism, doesn't that mean there ARE a lot of racists?
No. It means there are many people either ascendant and looking to appear superior, or of families that have lost money and are holding to behaviors they think signal they're dusty money, who say racist things. You'll run into these arseholes in a lot of mid-Atlantic institutions because they pollute the ruling-still-but-on-the-wane classes here like mold fills your wet basement.

We of the mid-Atlantic are the acid rain that creates the rust belt -- an insignificant crowd of yesterday's people. What the small slice of bigots among this fetid sector of the nation thinks of race (or most anything else) is as unlettered as it is irrelevant. That's why I told Flower, YMMV.

Your area is not much better. Filled with fools.
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Old 11-25-2020, 06:44 AM   #3849
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Re: Objectively intelligent.

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Welp, my son got himself infected. Who could have guessed that living in a frat house would be high-risk?

Prayer for a full and speedy recovery -- which is most common.

Watch the breathing. If the SOB becomes severe (can't walk across a room) time for ER. Sleep face down. Niacin, is helpful. There's a whole series of reddit, slack groups.
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Old 11-25-2020, 04:13 PM   #3850
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Re: Objectively intelligent.

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Originally Posted by Icky Thump View Post
Prayer for a full and speedy recovery -- which is most common.

Watch the breathing. If the SOB becomes severe (can't walk across a room) time for ER. Sleep face down. Niacin, is helpful. There's a whole series of reddit, slack groups.
So far I think he's asymptomatic, although he's also a hypochondriac so it's a little hard to tell. He's been isolating in a hotel room for a week and he's got at least another week to go, so there may be mental health issues by the end of it.

Sorry to hear about your FIL, Hank. My wife's grandmother is socially isolating herself through this on Cape Cod, and the question of when people can visit her is a constant, with the fear that we will go through what happened with your family.
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Old 11-26-2020, 06:24 PM   #3851
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Re: Objectively intelligent.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
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