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12-07-2018, 01:10 PM
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#4336
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,081
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Re: Sebby is ugly and below average
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Trump voters are, by a statistically significant margin, more affluent than Americans as a whole.
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Which means they tend to make a few more bucks than loads of people making near subsistence wages. So they're the lords of the slagheap.
Cuz call me nuts, but making $100k these days, you can't even afford to send the kids to college?
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
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12-07-2018, 01:58 PM
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#4337
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
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Re: Sebby is ugly and below average
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Which means they tend to make a few more bucks than loads of people making near subsistence wages. So they're the lords of the slagheap.
Cuz call me nuts, but making $100k these days, you can't even afford to send the kids to college?
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Haven't I called you nuts before? What makes you think anything has changed?
__________________
A wee dram a day!
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12-07-2018, 02:24 PM
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#4338
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,081
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Re: Sebby is ugly and below average
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Haven't I called you nuts before? What makes you think anything has changed?
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Because it's the holidays?
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
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12-07-2018, 02:52 PM
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#4339
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I am beyond a rank!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,116
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Re: Barcelona
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
2/3 of Trump voters earn < $100k. This means 2/3 of Trump voters are unquestionably not affluent.
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Ty said the poorest did not vote for Trump. This is true.
You responded with, "not all Trump voters are affluent" (paraphrase). This is also true and undisputed.
The dispute was over your sloppy characterization of who you think the typical Trump voter is based on an inaccurate understanding of the statistics.
Now you've found another statistic that you don't understand, and have used it to make a categorial assertion. Here's my response: I don't know what "affluent" means in the abstract, but $100k is roughly twice national median income, and fully a third of Trump's support came from people making more than that. Which sounds actually like a lot.
But maybe it's not a lot. We'd need to know something about what percentage of Americans earn more than that. Here's something called bankrate.com (almost three years ago) saying that roughly 20% of households earn more than $100k: https://www.bankrate.com/finance/per...anymore-1.aspx
This from the WSL says $100k is 8th percentile (this is individual, not family): http://graphics.wsj.com/what-percent/
This, from Bloomberg, has an interesting title.
If those numbers are about right (feel free to spend more than 20 seconds Googling), then Trump got disproportionate support from people earning more than $100k.
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12-07-2018, 03:07 PM
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#4340
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,945
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Re: Pennsylvania: where the men are ugly and all the children are below average
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
HOW MUCH OF A TOTAL MORON ARE YOU?
You realize this has been corrected over and over again. This isn't Fox, repeating incorrect information over and over again doesn't make anyone believe it more.
Get a clue.
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It's wrong for a different reason too, something I said yesterday that Sebby seems to have missed. Trump voters tend to well-off relative to where they live, but live in places that are not doing well relative to the nation as a whole. At least part of the sense of grievance comes from the sense of entitlement that comes from having been affluent, relatively, and the sense of threat that comes from feeling like your community's best days are behind it.
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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12-07-2018, 03:13 PM
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#4341
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,945
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Re: Barcelona
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
This all rests on the assumption that income is far from normally distributed.
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THIS JUST IN! INCOME IS FAR FROM NORMALLY DISTRIBUTED!
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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12-07-2018, 03:17 PM
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#4342
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
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Re: Pennsylvania: where the men are ugly and all the children are below average
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
It's wrong for a different reason too, something I said yesterday that Sebby seems to have missed. Trump voters tend to well-off relative to where they live, but live in places that are not doing well relative to the nation as a whole. At least part of the sense of grievance comes from the sense of entitlement that comes from having been affluent, relatively, and the sense of threat that comes from feeling like your community's best days are behind it.
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Many of those areas, of course, have made many choices that have repercussions, such as not investing in education and educational institutions, and many of those people don't have an economic grievance but a social and cultural one. They double down on past poor choices through support for Trump. Some of the sense of grievance isn't about economics, but about the godless hateful "religion" many of them spout and their own racism.
__________________
A wee dram a day!
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12-07-2018, 03:18 PM
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#4343
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
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Re: Barcelona
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
THIS JUST IN! INCOME IS FAR FROM NORMALLY DISTRIBUTED!
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Do you think Sebby knows what "normally distributed" means?
__________________
A wee dram a day!
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12-07-2018, 03:20 PM
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#4344
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,945
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Re: Sebby is ugly and below average
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Trump voters are, by a statistically significant margin, more affluent than Americans as a whole.
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And even more affluent relative to other people in places where they live, which are poorer than America as a whole.
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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12-07-2018, 03:22 PM
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#4345
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,081
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Re: Barcelona
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
THIS JUST IN! INCOME IS FAR FROM NORMALLY DISTRIBUTED!
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Trump voters are the high end of the struggling classes. This would indicate a more normal distribution with the majority congealing around the median and identical tails going to the poor on one side and Sheldon Adelson on the other.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
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12-07-2018, 03:26 PM
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#4346
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,081
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Re: Pennsylvania: where the men are ugly and all the children are below average
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
It's wrong for a different reason too, something I said yesterday that Sebby seems to have missed. Trump voters tend to well-off relative to where they live, but live in places that are not doing well relative to the nation as a whole. At least part of the sense of grievance comes from the sense of entitlement that comes from having been affluent, relatively, and the sense of threat that comes from feeling like your community's best days are behind it.
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You don’t know this. That’s entirely conjecture. It’s a lot more credible and logical to say that the majority of Trump’s $100k+ voters are in or around cities. Cities are where the money is. Your argument, that Trump had lots of voters in the exburbs, and therefore landed his well heeled voters in significant part from the tiny pool of wealthy exburb and rural voters is far less likely scenario than Trump’s $100k+ voters coming from a much bigger pool of $100k+ greedy folks in and around cities.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
Last edited by sebastian_dangerfield; 12-07-2018 at 03:38 PM..
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12-07-2018, 03:28 PM
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#4347
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Flower
Posts: 8,434
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Re: Barcelona
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
2/3 of Trump voters earn < $100k. This means 2/3 of Trump voters are unquestionably not affluent.
You can argue until you're blue in the face and not get around that statistic.
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Oh my god, you really don't understand math. If 2/3 of Trump voters earn less than $100K and if it is also true that 2/3 of ALL PEOPLE earn <$100K, then it would be the case that Trump voters as a whole might be just as affluent as everyone else. Or more affluent. You still wouldn't know without more information. Put another way, saying that most Trump voters aren't affluent, alone, tells you nothing about the relative affluence of Trump voters. I know I don't usually argue substance with, but dude, this is just math.
__________________
Inside every man lives the seed of a flower.
If he looks within he finds beauty and power.
I am not sorry.
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12-07-2018, 03:36 PM
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#4348
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,081
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Re: Barcelona
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower
Oh my god, you really don't understand math. If 2/3 of Trump voters earn less than $100K and if it is also true that 2/3 of ALL PEOPLE earn <$100K, then it would be the case that Trump voters as a whole might be just as affluent as everyone else. Or more affluent. You still wouldn't know without more information. Put another way, saying that most Trump voters aren't affluent, alone, tells you nothing about the relative affluence of Trump voters. I know I don't usually argue substance with, but dude, this is just math.
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100k is not affluent, anywhere. You can’t afford to send a kid to college on that salary, no matter where you live.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
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12-07-2018, 03:49 PM
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#4349
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,945
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Re: Pennsylvania: where the men are ugly and all the children are below average
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Many of those areas, of course, have made many choices that have repercussions, such as not investing in education and educational institutions, and many of those people don't have an economic grievance but a social and cultural one. They double down on past poor choices through support for Trump. Some of the sense of grievance isn't about economics, but about the godless hateful "religion" many of them spout and their own racism.
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We have an economy right now where there are strong network effects driving good growth. The kinds of jobs that everybody wants are clustered in a small number of metro areas. Look at Amazon, choosing to expand in NYC and DC rather than any one of a number of other places. In the development sense, the rich (areas) get richer and the rest are stuck looking up at them. Fighting this dynamic is super hard. Individual places have done some interesting things, but no one has found a solution that works widely.
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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12-07-2018, 03:50 PM
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#4350
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I am beyond a rank!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,116
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Re: Barcelona
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Trump voters are the high end of the struggling classes.
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It can't be that you still do not get this, can it? You're just doing your usual bs, right?
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