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Old 02-07-2019, 02:08 PM   #61
Tyrone Slothrop
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

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Unrelatedly, Hugo, Nebula and Arthur C. Clarke award winner Ann Leckie's new book Provenance uses the pronouns em, e, eir and derivatves thereof. We need credit. https://mobile.twitter.com/ann_lecki...691328?lang=en
Is it worth a read?
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:12 PM   #62
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Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
The problem with "who gets a pass" is that Dems seem to have a different standard for Dems then for R's, and R's do the opposite (as Ty said it is political as all hell), and then mix in "why does white guy Hank get to have an opinion on Liam?"
On Northam, my Twitter feed was full of Dems dumping on Northam, and conservatives dumping on Dems for defending Northam. I didn't actually see anyone defending Northam, though. This business of finding a few people on the other side of the aisle saying crazy stuff and deciding that they are typical of the whole party sometimes smacks of deciding that because a single black guy did something bad, you should just go and find any old snake.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:13 PM   #63
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Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
I don't agree with all of Franken's politics, but he was reasonable, and he knew how to get a point across. He is sorely missed and needed. Every time I hear his name, I'm annoyed. The only solace is that Gillibrand, the Brutus in that production, has as much chance of being elected President as she does of developing prostate cancer.

May her unrealized ambition (and she has a relentless ego) eat her alive.
Funny how people blame Gillibrand for Franken's bad behavior. I miss him too, but if he hadn't done bad things he wouldn't have had a problem. And Gillibrand was not the first or last to call him on it.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:45 PM   #64
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Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...

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Like, how do you figure? Pretty much everyone has called on Northam to resign.
"because of how he handled it?" Like earlier today a sock said that, it was, ummm, oh, it was you.The easy thing is to say it's over after this shit show- the man was about to break dance at a press conference until his wife grabbed his arm. And there is at least one FB piece (I assume from a black person) sort of saying, "if we wait for perfect white people we'll be lonely." Meanwhile, my point is that has apparently used black face so many times he feels competent to give advice?

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Franken resigned.
yes, but weren't there a ton of people who urged him not to? I see him as an example of "do I have to satisfy everyone's standard?" Meanwhile, no R's urged him to stick around.

Look, the GOP of a few years ago, the self-righteous one, remember? They would call on dems who got caught in affairs to resign, so then they had to too. Wasn't there an R, maybe speaker or a whip who resigned just over an affair?
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:50 PM   #65
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Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...

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You're talking about elections in majority black cities.
They did crimes in office, they both did jail time for shit they did in office. If your point is "people are tribal to their own race" okay.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:54 PM   #66
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Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...

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He should have been removed from his committees as punishment. That seems fair to me.
The guy treated a woman as meat, because she was a dancer or posed nude or something? Just destroyed his narrative.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:57 PM   #67
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Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
On Northam, my Twitter feed was full of Dems dumping on Northam, and conservatives dumping on Dems for defending Northam. I didn't actually see anyone defending Northam, though. This business of finding a few people on the other side of the aisle saying crazy stuff and deciding that they are typical of the whole party sometimes smacks of deciding that because a single black guy did something bad, you should just go and find any old snake.
I responded to adder on this, as to the separate fine points you make- Fuck you.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:00 PM   #68
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Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...

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Yeah, the Democrats eat their own alive. When a GOP legislator gets caught in blackface, or accused of groping, the Democrats scream for his head. But realizing that will go nowhere, the Democrats give up, and the guy stays.

But when the Democrats have a guy like Franken in their sights, the opportunists in the party take out a potential Presidential competitor, and the bloodthirsty sorts see a way to actually topple a politician -- something they can't do to a GOP legislator. To satisfy that urge and flex their muscles, they take out their own.

It's like beating the shit out of your own players in scrimmages while losing repeatedly to other teams.

The Democrats need to develop some sensible scale of sins and appropriate punishments. I think Northam needs to go. So does the Atty. general. I think Franken needed to be publicly censured.

I think anyone suggesting what Northam did is equivalent to what Franken did needs to get a grip.
Democrats have actual principles on these subject and attempt to live by them.

They could chose to be the hypocrites that the GOP accuses them of being, but that would do very poor service to those principles.

That Gillibrand would be primarily motivated to get rid of a presidential rival is pretty funny right now, given the size of the field. It was pretty funny back then when there was little chance of Al running anyway.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:00 PM   #69
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Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...

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What's misogynist there? (Except in your head?)
Well, finding a woman to blame for dude's fuck ups, to begin with.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:03 PM   #70
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Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...

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I responded to adder on this, as to the separate fine points you make- Fuck you.
As Sebby routinely proves here, it's easy to find someone on the left saying something nutty, like Northam is cool, or the workers control the means of production and the Democratic platform should call for state ownership of major industries. Specifically on Northam, I haven't seen anyone defending him. More generally, both sides (look! Ty engaging in both-sidism!) have some propensity to find people on the other side saying something they disagree with and to attribute that to the other side. Some of the Rs criticizing Ds for defending Northam may really have believed that Ds were generally defending Northam; others were just saying it cynically to stir the pot. Was not reacting to what you were saying as much as to my Twitter feed (you are a FB person, not a Twitter person, but I like you anyway) -- did not mean to sound like I was giving you shit, and sorry you felt appropriate to deploy an expletive at me.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:06 PM   #71
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Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...

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"because of how he handled it?" Like earlier today a sock said that, it was, ummm, oh, it was you.The easy thing is to say it's over after this shit show- the man was about to break dance at a press conference until his wife grabbed his arm. And there is at least one FB piece (I assume from a black person) sort of saying, "if we wait for perfect white people we'll be lonely." Meanwhile, my point is that has apparently used black face so many times he feels competent to give advice?

yes, but weren't there a ton of people who urged him not to? I see him as an example of "do I have to satisfy everyone's standard?" Meanwhile, no R's urged him to stick around.
I'm missing where in here there is evidence of Dems having different standards for Dem conduct than for R conduct.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:08 PM   #72
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Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...

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The guy treated a woman as meat, because she was a dancer or posed nude or something? Just destroyed his narrative.
He took a stupid photo in which he was not even touching her. And she alleges he tried to kiss her. Boorish? Yes. Offensive? Yes. Something that should cause an excellent Senator to lose his job? No.

Oh, and the semi-famous woman who accused him, the one in that photo? Right winger. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeann_Tweeden

She did a bunch of Hannity interviews, Greg Gutfeld's show, and worked for numerous Fox affiliates.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:11 PM   #73
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Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...

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I'm missing where in here there is evidence of Dems having different standards for Dem conduct than for R conduct.
You say the dem who routinely wore black face is out BECAUSE of his press conferences. You'd give an R a pass for being a regular black face user? Please.

Edit- plus, the thought that at least is giving people pause is "because he does so much good." the definition of what is "good" always flows from political stance- "that R senator may have worn black face but he's very effective at stripping away EPA regulations so maybe we give him a pass?"
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:16 PM   #74
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Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...

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Democrats have actual principles on these subject and attempt to live by them.

They could chose to be the hypocrites that the GOP accuses them of being, but that would do very poor service to those principles.

That Gillibrand would be primarily motivated to get rid of a presidential rival is pretty funny right now, given the size of the field. It was pretty funny back then when there was little chance of Al running anyway.
Exhibiting mob frenzied behavior is not hewing to principles. It's actually the opposite. The principled person stands up to the Robespierres and says, "Hey, this feels cathartic, but is actually quite counterproductive."

Are you suggesting Gillibrand called for Franken to resign (and hers was one of the most significant voices in the chorus) out of principle? Nah. She was making a political calculation. She's an operator of the first order.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:23 PM   #75
Hank Chinaski
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Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
He took a stupid photo in which he was not even touching her. And she alleges he tried to kiss her. Boorish? Yes. Offensive? Yes. Something that should cause an excellent Senator to lose his job? No.

Oh, and the semi-famous woman who accused him, the one in that photo? Right winger. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeann_Tweeden

She did a bunch of Hannity interviews, Greg Gutfeld's show, and worked for numerous Fox affiliates.
she could have blown donkeys in the street, none of that justifies his acts- he was the champion of women's causes and he treated one like meat.
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