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07-25-2017, 11:44 AM
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#1231
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I am beyond a rank!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,113
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Re: Civil Asset Forfeiture
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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Yes. Not all "America First" people are racists.
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Nah. Some might have trouble admitting it, but nah.
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There is within the notion of "America First" a percentage of people who simply believe that, in deciding any policy, we should put our interests in front of those of other foreign nations.
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Exactly no one doesn't believe this. That some people either (1) do not see the U.S. interest in international relations/trade/influence, and/or (2) thinks that there is a group of people who do not believe this reveals that there is something else going on with anyone who feels the need to adopt the slogan.
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Sadly, I fear this is a very small percentage of the America First crowd, the majority of it being xenophobes, racists, history-illiterate nativists, and general, garden variety imbeciles.
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Given this, why worry about the "very small percentage" at all?
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Andrew Sullivan's done a good job of explaining how one can assert a proper, rational, non-bigoted America First position.
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Andrew Sullivan is prone to periodic bouts of racism, so, yeah.
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07-25-2017, 11:47 AM
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#1232
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
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Re: Civil Asset Forfeiture
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
There is within the notion of "America First" a percentage of people who simply believe that, in deciding any policy, we should put our interests in front of those of other foreign nations. This is not some wild form of bigotry, but a simple, logical understanding that a sovereign nation's primary duty is to itself.
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Most, if not practically all, Americans think that in deciding any policy we should put our interests in front of those of other foreign nations. That's the easy part. The hard part is in recognizing that our long-term interests sometimes mean not putting our short-term interests in front of those of other foreign nations.
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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07-25-2017, 12:03 PM
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#1233
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,077
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Re: Civil Asset Forfeiture
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Most, if not practically all, Americans think that in deciding any policy we should put our interests in front of those of other foreign nations. That's the easy part. The hard part is in recognizing that our long-term interests sometimes mean not putting our short-term interests in front of those of other foreign nations.
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Agreed. But that's an entirely different discussion. And one that categorizes people based on economic literacy, rather than xenophobic or racist tendencies.
I'd prefer that discussion be the predominant one. It's a much more useful conversation, and it compels us to examine the economic stupidity of Trump's immigration and trade policies.
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All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
Last edited by sebastian_dangerfield; 07-25-2017 at 12:10 PM..
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07-25-2017, 12:09 PM
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#1234
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,077
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Re: Civil Asset Forfeiture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder
Given this, why worry about the "very small percentage" at all?
Andrew Sullivan is prone to periodic bouts of racism, so, yeah.
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On 1, because there's an equally small but influential crowd that believes we should move toward a world government. These are silly and naive sorts who should be checked.
On 2, that's ludicrous. The man's only prone to racism if your lens is so sensitive, and your politics so infantile, that your points are barely worth considering.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
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07-25-2017, 12:53 PM
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#1235
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
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Re: Civil Asset Forfeiture
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Agreed. But that's an entirely different discussion.
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It is an entirely different discussion, which is to say that people who say "America First" are not just expressing a disagreement about the weighting of long- and short-term interests.
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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07-25-2017, 01:05 PM
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#1236
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I am beyond a rank!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,113
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Re: Civil Asset Forfeiture
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
On 1, because there's an equally small but influential crowd that believes we should move toward a world government. These are silly and naive sorts who should be checked.
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I do not think there is anyone who thinks that we should move toward a world government for the sake of having a world government.
But there are clearly things that require and/or are enhanced by international cooperation. Things like trade, you know.
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On 2, that's ludicrous. The man's only prone to racism if your lens is so sensitive, and your politics so infantile, that your points are barely worth considering.
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He's got some sort of timer that leads him periodically to write, "are black people genetically dumber than white people." Yeah, no racism there.
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07-25-2017, 03:27 PM
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#1237
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
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Re: Civil Asset Forfeiture
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
There is within the notion of "America First" a percentage of people who simply believe that, in deciding any policy, we should put our interests in front of those of other foreign nations.
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What you are describing is not the America First crowd but the traditional foreign policy realpolitick crowd, who are the core of the anti-America First group within the Republican Party.
The American Firsters have little or no concept of American interest, they are simply hostile to anything that is outside their small, white boys club (other than Coulter and Ingraham). Try to have a discussion with the America's Firsters on Iran, and you discover they know nothing about Iran, they aren't interested in learning, but they can tell you all you need to know, which is a bigoted screed. Think Tom Cotton.
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A wee dram a day!
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07-25-2017, 03:30 PM
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#1238
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
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Re: Civil Asset Forfeiture
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
On 1, because there's an equally small but influential crowd that believes we should move toward a world government. These are silly and naive sorts who should be checked.
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Keep smoking that stuff and Sessions is going to come for you.
__________________
A wee dram a day!
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07-25-2017, 03:40 PM
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#1239
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
[venting to no particular end]
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
Last edited by Tyrone Slothrop; 07-25-2017 at 06:31 PM..
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07-26-2017, 09:56 AM
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#1240
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,077
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Re: Civil Asset Forfeiture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
It is an entirely different discussion, which is to say that people who say "America First" are not just expressing a disagreement about the weighting of long- and short-term interests.
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That does not mean they are all racists and xenophobes. People who say "America First" have various definitions of the term. Many are bigots. But a not insignificant number are not.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
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07-26-2017, 10:01 AM
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#1241
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,077
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Re: Civil Asset Forfeiture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Keep smoking that stuff and Sessions is going to come for you.
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De facto, not official.
We already have a form of world govt in terms of corporate power. Does anyone doubt the top 10 multinationals have more power than 90% of govts?
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
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07-26-2017, 10:27 AM
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#1242
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I am beyond a rank!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,113
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Re: Civil Asset Forfeiture
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
That does not mean they are all racists and xenophobes. People who say "America First" have various definitions of the term. Many are bigots. But a not insignificant number are not.
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Again, I'm not sure why it's so important to you defend a tiny group of people who can't be bothered to separate themselves with a movement of actual bigots.
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07-26-2017, 10:29 AM
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#1243
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
[venting to no particular end]
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New Board Motto!!
__________________
A wee dram a day!
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07-26-2017, 10:30 AM
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#1244
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
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Re: Civil Asset Forfeiture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder
Again, I'm not sure why it's so important to you defend a tiny group of people who can't be bothered to separate themselves with a movement of actual bigots.
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Or who spend their time electing actual bigots.
__________________
A wee dram a day!
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07-26-2017, 10:49 AM
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#1245
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Flower
Posts: 8,434
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Re: Civil Asset Forfeiture
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
That does not mean they are all racists and xenophobes. People who say "America First" have various definitions of the term. Many are bigots. But a not insignificant number are not.
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The notion that many "America First" people are just good folks who think we should put the interests of our citizens above those of citizens of foreign countries is just fucking stupid nonsense. Can you name one fucking group in the entire country who advocates that we should put the interests of citizens of foreign countries over the interests of our own citizens? You are constantly desperate to defend the indefensible, to minimize the hatred and bigotry. Why? Because you see the greatest problem facing our country is that a bunch of hysterical, hyper-sensitive, hair-on-fire liberals have made it hard to be openly racist or sexist in our society, and focus all their energy on pushing forward their Tyrannical Feminazi Political Correctness Agenda instead of taking the very simple and straightforward steps you have previously outlined to solve all of our country's economic problems?
Some real early Parliament for the Daily Dose. You can hear the shadows of later songs in this cut. "Breakdown":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE-WKRqyzwg
__________________
Inside every man lives the seed of a flower.
If he looks within he finds beauty and power.
I am not sorry.
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