We are all Slave now.

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Someone somewhere better be ashamed for the whole anti-piper in Rock sentiments expressed here not long ago.

More Murphys here for the Harvard/Yale Crowd.

I’m not ashamed of my fondness of the music played on the “Acoustic Estrogen” and “Lesbian Grrls” channels on Sirius XM.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

-Every conversation he has allegedly had at every suburban cocktail party has allegedly attended. Ever.

off my corner, ho.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

He should be ashamed about comparing Starr and Mueller.

He also should be ashamed that the criminality of Flynn, Manafort and Cohen make him think of prosecutorial misconduct, unless he has such a sensitive gag reflex that sunshine and shoes and puppies also elicit the same response, in which case he should seek Scotch and medical help, in that order.

Outside violent crime, I've never seen a prosecution where I rooted for the prosecutor. It's not in my soul. Which is another way of saying, I have a soul.

(I could root for a prosecution of someone like Angelo Mozillo. Or some other miscreants who contributed to the 2008 crisis. But we'll never see those prosecutions. See: Holder Doctrine.)

[sebastian_dangerfield]

This adds to the following, non-exhaustive list of things that Sebastian should be totally ashamed about:

-Trump

Not doing this again.

-Not apologizing about Trump

See above

-Desperately and absurdly trying to find positive aspects of the Trump presidency, in a ridiculous "at least he makes the train run on time" fashion, so that he can somehow feel o.k. with himself about not apologizing for Trump

I always take the side of the person being piled upon. Authority issues.

-The whole horns in rock fiasco

I always exempted Traffic. Horns in rock fall into the Bill Clinton-on-abortion analysis. They can be included, they are acceptable, but they should be rare.

-Calling Lil Jon "Little John"

I am ashamed for this.

-The "crisp" and "floral" bouquet of his favorite small batch craft-distilled gin

How else does one describe rose petal flavoring?

-Not being ashamed about any of the above (except the Lil Jon thing, which he said he is ashamed about and I will take him at his word on that)

I am really, seriously ashamed about that.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Outside violent crime, I've never seen a prosecution where I rooted for the prosecutor. It's not in my soul. Which is another way of saying, I have a soul.

You don't think there's something just a tiny bit qualitatively different about having sold our democracy to whichever foreign interest were offering?

(I could root for a prosecution of someone like Angelo Mozillo. Or some other miscreants who contributed to the 2008 crisis. But we'll never see those prosecutions. See: Holder Doctrine.)

So it doesn't count as a prosecution unless it does to trial, or what? Because Mozilo paid a $67.5 million fine and is banned from public companies.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Some other things he should be ashamed of (again, non-exhaustive):

-Citing that lunatic Cernovich as a neutral unbiased source.

I didn't know who he was. But even if he's a degenerate, if all you can do is shoot the messenger...

-Every conversation he has allegedly had at every suburban cocktail party has allegedly attended. Ever.

I've held forth impressively on hand painted wallpaper, and driveway sealant. You judge without all the facts.

-Every time he used the phrase "echo chamber." Normally I would give him one free pass, but fuck that.

I'll use pile-on from now on.

-The fact that I suspect he secretly kind of likes the Dave Matthews Band.

I like "Two Step." But only because I used to have sex to it a lot.

-The fact the he is soon going to disingenuously deny his secret admiration for the Dave Matthews Band.

I secretly love that song that goes, "I eat too much/I drink too much... Too Much!" over and over again. Ya got me.

"Crash" was a miserable song. "Hike up your skirt a little more/And show the world to me..." ...And trip my gag reflex. I want to call it the height of treacliness, but I'm not sure that's a word. And I'm not sure it's strong enough. Borrowing from "Start Me Up," that "makes a hard man soft."

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I didn't know who he was. But even if he's a degenerate, if all you can do is shoot the messenger...

I no longer remember what it was that you shared from him, but I do recall also pointing out that it was obvious bullshit.

And I still don't think you grasp that citing him is more or less the same as citing Alex Jones. Nothing beyond pointing out the source should be needed.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

You don't think there's something just a tiny bit qualitatively different about having sold our democracy to whichever foreign interest were offering?

That's laughably overwrought. They went trawling for dirt and were happy to take it from Russians. Politicians of old did far worse. And I'm sure they also did the same. In days past, however, the trail couldn't be investigated. Now we have electronic data and records adequate to determine how the dirty tricks were performed.

So it doesn't count as a prosecution unless it does to trial, or what? Because Mozilo paid a $67.5 million fine and is banned from public companies.

Right. If you're a rich criminal who can dime out "Friends of Angelo" such as Chris Dodd, you get a fine. If you're a rich fool who uses inside info to avoid half a million in stock losses like Stewart, but you have no dirt on politically powerful people, you're made "an example... for deterrent purposes." And if you're not rich at all, and you're just dealing drugs, well fuck you -- you get 10 years for trafficking.

We pick and choose who gets crucified and who gets a pass in this country on the most arbitrary and indefensible bases. I'm not suggesting undoing the system entirely. I don't think you can have a justice system without some selective prosecution. I'm merely suggesting selective prosecution be an allowed defense and mitigating factor in sentencing.

Consider the cocaine vs. crack debacle. Congress only rectified that inequity after recognizing the law was predatory and discriminatory. Is it any less predatory to jail Martha Stewart over something for which you and I would only receive a fine? (Because we both know, that's all that would happen to a Joe Shmoe who used inside info to the small degree Martha did.)

People should be able to point back at the prosecutor, break down the fourth wall and say, "I'm being treated unfairly versus others because this prosecutor is politically ambitious/wants a famous scalp for 'deterrent value'/wants to test a novel legal theory." Prosecutors should always be at a decided disadvantage in a country that actually gives a shit about its citizens' rights. Instead, we've a system where they hold all the cards.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Objecting to bagpipes in rock seems to like objecting to haggis at a buffet. It's probably an acquired taste, but, hey, whatever gets your kilt going.

I'm of the opinion Bon Scott could do no wrong. But I'm also happy that AC/DC never allowed him to do it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIXV0cir4-E

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

I no longer remember what it was that you shared from him, but I do recall also pointing out that it was obvious bullshit.

And I still don't think you grasp that citing him is more or less the same as citing Alex Jones. Nothing beyond pointing out the source should be needed.

I didn't. I had no idea who he was. But what he was citing at that time wasn't Alex Jones type shit. I recall it being some leak that he'd acquired.

You assume I know a lot about the right wing. I don't. I don't care much about it. Now, knowing he's an asshat, I would not cite the man.

But wherever it comes from, if a thing happens to be a fact, it's a fact.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I always exempted Traffic. Horns in rock fall into the Bill Clinton-on-abortion analysis. They can be included, they are acceptable, but they should be rare.

"All Down The Line" is pure, raw, rock and roll from one of the Stones' grimiest albums, Exile. Like a number of other Stones songs from this era, it uses horn lines throughout, but particularly starting at the 3:02 mark of the video. The horns do not sound like an add-on or a superfluous flourish by some producer who had too much time on his hands. Nor are they an attempt to soften the song, like putting in some strings to smooth down the rough edges. They hit as hard as the guitar riffs or the drum fills. This song, standing alone, is a complete, devastating, and dispositive rebuttal to your entire horns in rock argument, even as it has been amended from time to time. Also, the video this person put together is just hilarious. I really wish it was o.k. to dance like that still:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtAsaDKB0eY

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Look, I get it. But the fact that you are trying to draw some weak ass comparison between Starr's investigation (which was built on nothing and basically found nothing) and Mueller's, which has brought back a number of indictments and exposed evidence of serious crime and unprecedented levels of interference from a foreign government with the fucking blessing and encouragement (at best) of the current President of the United States on what looks to be a quid pro quo basis, makes your whole post ridiculous.

You started off saying it's all a big nothing burger. Now you're talking about crimes that were committed that wouldn't have been prosecuted because we wouldn't have known about them without there being a special counsel. What? Just stop it.

TM

It's a nothing burger. Trump himself is not going to get nailed for collusion. Nobody allows the village idiot in on the conspiracy. Political Organization 101: Never give the top guy info that could force him to lie later. Everyone knows that. Even the dimmest bulbs like Flynn.

Manafort and Gates got nailed for tax shenanigans, bank fraud, and failing to register as foreign agents. You could charge half of DC with those crimes if you put them under a microscope. Every white collar prosecution has some bullshit wire or bank fraud claim in it.

They got Flynn for failing to register and whatever else they've refrained from charging regarding his attempts to line his pockets. Ugly? Sure. So he's the Admin's Spiro Agnew.

Papadopoulous: Lying to agents.

Van der Zaaan: Lying to agents. What'd he get? 90 days?

13 of the indictments were Russian techies.

Oh, and of course, I'm sure conspiracy charges were included somewhere in those five indictments of administration people listed above.

Maybe my standard is a bit higher than yours, but this isn't looking like Watergate on Steroids. It's looking like a bunch of sleazy folks with skeletons in their closets who should have known better than to get involved with pikers like the Trump Org. And who'd otherwise be walking around, enjoying their ill-gotten gains, as millions of others do (particularly in their chosen fields) all day long.

So yeah, nothing burger. For now. But I wait to be surprised by Mueller... He's a smart and thorough guy. If there's something, he'll find it. But it's not going to nail Trump himself. And no, obstruction won't cut it.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

"All Down The Line" is pure, raw, rock and roll from one of the Stones' grimiest albums, Exile. Like a number of other Stones songs from this era, it uses horn lines throughout, but particularly starting at the 3:02 mark of the video. The horns do not sound like an add-on or a superfluous flourish by some producer who had too much time on his hands. Nor are they an attempt to soften the song, like putting in some strings to smooth down the rough edges. They hit as hard as the guitar riffs or the drum fills. This song, standing alone, is a complete, devastating, and dispositive rebuttal to your entire horns in rock argument, even as it has been amended from time to time. Also, the video this person put together is just hilarious. I really wish it was o.k. to dance like that still:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtAsaDKB0eY

I speak no ill of Bobby Keys. "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" is one of the very best.

But horns over guitar add a layer that makes the overall sound a bit muddy. In my opinion, the Stones sound their best with just guitar, drums, and bass. That includes Mick's harmonica (except on "Midnight Rambler," where for some reason, it works).

(I also dislike Neil Young's and Dylan's occasional overuse of harmonica.)

ETA: I like Jones' sitar. Sitar can be added to any song. You can't get too much sitar. But that's a string instrument, so it's no surprise I'm a fan.

ETA2: Violin and fiddle are okay as well, but one should be careful not to sound like the band in Revenge of the Nerds. And Jimmy Page had no business using a bow with a guitar. Have you ever listened to a 25 minute "Dazed and Confused" and thought, "Gee, what really made that great was the 14 minute bow-on-guitar 'solo' in the middle." (That song reminds me of Floyd's "Interstellar Overdrive." You start listening and think, what a great hook! Then a minute in the song devolves into moronic noodling, only to surge back into that awesome hook again for thirty seconds at the end. Fuck you, Syd. Fuck you.)

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

But horns over guitar add a layer that makes the overall sound a bit muddy. In my opinion, the Stones sound their best with just guitar, drums, and bass.

Music is subjective, taste is subjective, but you are wrong. As additional, incontrovertible, irrefutable proof of your wrongness, I offer the following:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lNP-x94-SE

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I had no idea who he was. And I'm really gullible, so I accepted what he was was saying without further inquiry and cited him as a credible source.

Fixed that for you.