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Old 06-15-2017, 10:32 AM   #721
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
He wants the story to go away, and he's like a toddler.
Exactly. His knee-jerk reaction is to use the most blunt instrument available.

He probably figured by now the country would be so enamored with his great policies successes that no one would care about the investigation.
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:37 AM   #722
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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You literally just said we're beyond political fixes.
Those are policy fixes. On limited issues, like undoing his dumb policy on immigration, or the environment, surgically applied politics works.

The big picture that is ultimately bleak for a lot of Americans involves global economic realities, demographics, and systemic failures of our current form of capitalism which put it beyond domestic political fixes.
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:45 AM   #723
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
I personally suspect that if there was collusion between Trump and the Russians over the campaign, it didn't involve him personally, but that he has other ties to Russia that he does not uncovered, and that he is insecure about losing the popular vote and is irrationally vexed at the suggestion that he won because he got Russian help. In other words: All of the above. I do wonder why Trump cares so much about protecting Flynn -- that is one detail that makes me think the above might be wrong.

Other Republicans are trying to kill it for various reasons, many of them partisan.
Agreed 100%. No sane person colludes with Trump. His name may be Webster's approved antonym for "discreet" and "clandestine" by the end of his term. ("Trump": To in all instances speak before thinking; To blurt the most sensitive possible thing in adverse company.)

I don't get the Flynn thing, either. He's the guy you throw under the bus. He's got something.
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:58 AM   #724
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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He's at 35% approval and 60% disapproval. What the actual fuck are you talking about?

TM
I agree with Ty's response to this re: impeachment avoidance.

Also, he thinks he has a movement. And he might. I shudder to think what sort of shit we'd see if he were bounced out of office. He would not go gracefully. He would hold rallies, and he would declare himself a martyr. And that would rend things far more than anyone can imagine.

The polls were wrong last cycle. They paint a very incomplete picture. Even among moderate Rs, most of whom dislike the guy, there's a distaste for what looks like a DC Establishment hit job.

The refrain from GOP sorts is almost always the same: "He's a buffoon. But this is an attempt at a coup, and that's worse."
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:19 AM   #725
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
Those are policy fixes. On limited issues, like undoing his dumb policy on immigration, or the environment, surgically applied politics works.
What is surgically applied politics? What's the practical alternative to getting rid of Trump and Republican majorities on the Hill? They aren't responsive to people like you and me.
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:21 AM   #726
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Even among moderate Rs, most of whom dislike the guy, there's a distaste for what looks like a DC Establishment hit job.
There are no moderate Republicans. There are conservative Republicans, and there are Republicans who make noises before siding with the conservative Republicans.
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:55 PM   #727
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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What is surgically applied politics? What's the practical alternative to getting rid of Trump and Republican majorities on the Hill? They aren't responsive to people like you and me.
You can peel off Gang of 8 sorts to resist Bannon's agenda. It's doable. And on issues like cruel immigration and dumb environmental policies, you'll find limited allies.
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:57 PM   #728
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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You can peel off Gang of 8 sorts to resist Bannon's agenda. It's doable. And on issues like cruel immigration and dumb environmental policies, you'll find limited allies.
What's the actual evidence that any Republicans will do this?

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Old 06-15-2017, 12:59 PM   #729
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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There are no moderate Republicans. There are conservative Republicans, and there are Republicans who make noises before siding with the conservative Republicans.
I know several high level Rs who have a lot more in common with moderate Ds than right wing GOP people. They're quite unhappy. They wanted Jeb.

But things are so polarized by extremes on both right and left, the moderate GOP in Congress is frozen.

As I noted above, however, on certain issues, like the environment and immigration, these people could cross the aisle.

ETA: Once they get their tax cuts through, I think you'll see GOP moderates speak up a bit more. I think they're just afraid to start any more trouble which might further imperil/delay those.
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:02 PM   #730
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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What's the actual evidence that any Republicans will do this?

There is none. This is purely anecdotal. I fully cop to that. No one will know until a situation involving a Gang of 8 breakaway emerges.
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:13 PM   #731
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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What's the actual evidence that any Republicans will do this?

The Senate voted for sanctions on Russia yesterday, but otherwise, even those Rs who criticize 45 publicly have voted with him.

They are still more afraid of their right than anything else.

ETA: Oh, and you can't do anything with peeled away gang of 8 types about what the administration has been doing with executive orders and points of prosecutorial emphasis. You'd need legislation and that requires majority leadership support.
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:23 PM   #732
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
I know several high level Rs who have a lot more in common with moderate Ds than right wing GOP people. They're quite unhappy. They wanted Jeb.
OK, when I said "no," I didn't literally mean no. There are none on the Hill. There are so few in the GOP that the country elected Donald Trump instead of a Democrat.

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But things are so polarized by extremes on both right and left, the moderate GOP in Congress is frozen.
Take your stupid-ass both-sidesism and put it away. "Things" are not "polarized" by "extremes" on the left, and whatever extreme leftist you can find, she will have absolutely nothing to do with the behavior of the "the moderate GOP in Congress," that mythical unicorn. The polarization is asymmetric.

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As I noted above, however, on certain issues, like the environment and immigration, these people could cross the aisle.
So then I asked you for actual evidence and you repeated yourself. Do you find that persuasive, ever?
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:52 PM   #733
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
ETA: Once they get their tax cuts through, I think you'll see GOP moderates speak up a bit more. I think they're just afraid to start any more trouble which might further imperil/delay those.
Okay, so these people are so moderate that their highest priorities are a trillion tax cut for the very highest earners (i.e., AHCA) and then more unspecified tax cuts? That's "moderate?"
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Old 06-15-2017, 02:12 PM   #734
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Pretty women out walking with gorillas down my street.

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Hank, you should buy yourself a lotto ticket tout suite. I would gladly trade my 2 K wins in a heartbeat to have inspired a Paisley reply. My jealousy is as if I were Chef and found out that a client had given you front row seats to see Britney in her Vegas show.
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Old 06-15-2017, 02:24 PM   #735
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Ugh. This whole story - expanded by Reality's leak to the Intercept - is really depressing on multiple levels. It makes one long for a return to paper ballots, accepting the concept that elections can be stolen by fighting over hanging chads (still bitter? Me?) in exchange for knowing that at least then the crime will be committed in front of witnesses.

(Paiey's back!)
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