We are all Slave now.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Klein suggested it should not be made at all,

No he didn't. Here's the transcript.

If you're going to argue with a straw man, find one that didn't put up a transcript.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I provided Ty with a study from Duke, based on data, doing the assessment he claimed could not be done.

False.

And I have to say that if you couldn't read and understand my succinct responses to you, I have a hard time believing that you read and understood much of that study.

But Klein suggested we not even engage in that kind of study.

False.

You've got the transcript. Prove me wrong. Show me where Klein suggests that.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

would it help to summarize what Harris and/or Klein said or suggested be done? they suggested some study of a disadvantaged group, and what, successes within that group despite the disadvantages, and how that can then be applied to rate "blame for individuals?" No one seems to understand the point you are trying to make, but maybe there was a concrete example that started you down this road?

I think Sebby listened to a podcast of the debate between Harris and Klein and was irritated by Klein, and is now arguing against a Klein bogeyman of his own irritated imagination.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Here's the transcript.

I tried. Can't do it.

TM

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I tried. Can't do it.

TM

Rest assured that in repeatedly ascribing to Klein and to me things we didn't say, Sebby is following in Harris's shoes. Here is an exchange from early in the transcript:

Sam Harris
... So, I felt a moral obligation to have [Murray] on my podcast. In the process of defending him against the charge of racism and in order to show that he had been mistreated for decades, we had to talk about the science of IQ and the way genes and environment almost certainly contribute to it. Again, IQ is not one of my concerns and racial differences in IQ is absolutely not one of my concerns, but a person having his reputation destroyed for honestly discussing data — that deeply concerns me.

I did that podcast, again exactly a year ago. Vox then published an article that was highly critical of that podcast. It was written by Eric Turkheimer and Kathryn Harden and Richard Nisbett. This article, in my view, got more or less everything wrong. It read to me like a piece of political propaganda.

I reached out to you by email. I felt this article was totally unfair. It accused us of peddling junk science and pseudoscience and pseudo scientific racialist speculation and trafficking in dangerous ideas. Murray got the worse of it, but at minimum, I’m painted as a total ignoramus, right? One line said while I have a PhD in neuroscience I appear to be totally ignorant of facts that are well known to everyone in the field of intelligence studies.

Ezra Klein
I think you should quote the line. I don’t think that’s what the line said.

Sam Harris
The quote is, this is the exact quote: “Sam Harris appeared to be ignorant of facts that were well known to everyone in the field of intelligence studies.” Now that’s since been quietly removed from the article, but it was there and it’s archived.

[I went back and looked into this and, as far as I can tell, the original quote that Harris is referring to is this one: “Here, too briefly, are some facts to ponder — facts that Murray was not challenged to consider by Harris, who holds a PhD in neuroscience, although they are known to most experts in the field of intelligence.” Here is the first archived version of the piece if you want to compare it with the final. — Ezra]

[Tyrone Slothrop]

[LessinSF]

The preceding pages have reminded me of a 100+ page opinion by the Nevada Supreme Court that purported to discipline a dead judge. https://law.justia.com/cases/nevada/...2/18326-1.html

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Rest assured that in repeatedly ascribing to Klein and to me things we didn't say, Sebby is following in Harris's shoes. Here is an exchange from early in the transcript:

Sam Harris
... So, I felt a moral obligation to have [Murray] on my podcast. In the process of defending him against the charge of racism and in order to show that he had been mistreated for decades, we had to talk about the science of IQ and the way genes and environment almost certainly contribute to it. Again, IQ is not one of my concerns and racial differences in IQ is absolutely not one of my concerns, but a person having his reputation destroyed for honestly discussing data — that deeply concerns me.

I did that podcast, again exactly a year ago. Vox then published an article that was highly critical of that podcast. It was written by Eric Turkheimer and Kathryn Harden and Richard Nisbett. This article, in my view, got more or less everything wrong. It read to me like a piece of political propaganda.

I reached out to you by email. I felt this article was totally unfair. It accused us of peddling junk science and pseudoscience and pseudo scientific racialist speculation and trafficking in dangerous ideas. Murray got the worse of it, but at minimum, I’m painted as a total ignoramus, right? One line said while I have a PhD in neuroscience I appear to be totally ignorant of facts that are well known to everyone in the field of intelligence studies.

Ezra Klein
I think you should quote the line. I don’t think that’s what the line said.

Sam Harris
The quote is, this is the exact quote: “Sam Harris appeared to be ignorant of facts that were well known to everyone in the field of intelligence studies.” Now that’s since been quietly removed from the article, but it was there and it’s archived.

[I went back and looked into this and, as far as I can tell, the original quote that Harris is referring to is this one: “Here, too briefly, are some facts to ponder — facts that Murray was not challenged to consider by Harris, who holds a PhD in neuroscience, although they are known to most experts in the field of intelligence.” Here is the first archived version of the piece if you want to compare it with the final. — Ezra]

This is funny. TM on board, saving your ass, and your confidence is back.

I’ll address this in the am.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I’ll address this in the am.

Oh you tease! I shan't sleep a wink.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

The preceding pages have reminded me of a 100+ page opinion by the Nevada Supreme Court that purported to discipline a dead judge. https://law.justia.com/cases/nevada/...2/18326-1.html

Depending on how they “discipline” the corpse that could be a felony too. Trivia this is why Penske got kicked out of mortuary school IIRC?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

This is funny. TM on board, saving your ass, and your confidence is back.

I’ll address this in the am.

According to science, the responsibility for saving my ass was 99.44% mine alone.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

The preceding pages have reminded me of a 100+ page opinion by the Nevada Supreme Court that purported to discipline a dead judge. https://law.justia.com/cases/nevada/...2/18326-1.html

We need a "like" button.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

This is funny. TM on board, saving your ass, and your confidence is back.

I’ll address this in the am.

First time I've seen a dead horse give the time for his next beating.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

No he didn't. Here's the transcript.

If you're going to argue with a straw man, find one that didn't put up a transcript.

Yes he did. He he come out and say exactly that? No. Because then he'd concede Harris's argument. In context, unequivocally, the entirety of his comments were:

"Sam, you should not engage in this sort inquiry as you've done. Murray should only be considered with a pile of caveats I think apply to his work."

Bullshit. Harris can examine Murray's work however he likes. And Klein can examine it however he likes. Neither has the right to tell the other how he should discuss something.

Harris's point was very simple: There's knowledge out there today that politically correct people don't want discussed. Klein responded, Those politically correct people have a point, and you should listen to them. That's ludicrous. It turns that "marketplace of ideas" you cited into a "marketplace of acceptable ideas"... as decided by brahmin like Klein.

Bad ideas die in the light. If Harris desires to discuss the positives of Nazism, or nuclear war, he can do so, and Klein has no business telling him he shouldn't do it. Klein can of course do so, as his free speech rights are as broad as Harris's, but then I can write the following here: Ezra Klein is a politically correct McIntellect.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

First time I've seen a dead horse give the time for his next beating.

The JV cheering squad's on the court, sweetheart.