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Old 04-24-2016, 11:41 PM   #1681
Icky Thump
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
So it seems the wailing on FB for Prince doubles that Bowie got. Is it because the collective pain after Bowie? Like okay this is too much. Or we knew Bowie was ill but Prince's death came from nowhere?

Or was he more important? To me Bowie was a God since about 73 or so. I loved Prince (although Under The Cherry Moon might be the worst movie ever), but Bowie was a step above. Yes? No?
I imagine the Facebook whining was even less when Benny Goodman died.
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Old 04-24-2016, 11:45 PM   #1682
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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I imagine the Facebook whining was even less when Benny Goodman died.
sounds depressing for what the Plasmatics players can expect?
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Old 04-25-2016, 11:20 AM   #1683
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
So it seems the wailing on FB for Prince doubles that Bowie got. Is it because the collective pain after Bowie? Like okay this is too much. Or we knew Bowie was ill but Prince's death came from nowhere?

Or was he more important? To me Bowie was a God since about 73 or so. I loved Prince (although Under The Cherry Moon might be the worst movie ever), but Bowie was a step above. Yes? No?
A step above how?

TM
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Old 04-25-2016, 11:31 AM   #1684
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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So it seems the wailing on FB for Prince doubles that Bowie got. Is it because the collective pain after Bowie? Like okay this is too much. Or we knew Bowie was ill but Prince's death came from nowhere?

Or was he more important? To me Bowie was a God since about 73 or so. I loved Prince (although Under The Cherry Moon might be the worst movie ever), but Bowie was a step above. Yes? No?
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Old 04-25-2016, 11:33 AM   #1685
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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A step above how?

TM
I agree that Bowie was "a step above" Prince. This is mostly subjective, but I think he had a longer and more varied career. Not sure if he had more "hits" or gold/platinum albums or whatever. But he was already a star when Prince was in junior high.

That said, to Hank's question -- Bowie was older, had lived dangerously, was known to be in not-great health. Prince was, well, not much older than many of us. Bigger shock.
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Old 04-25-2016, 11:55 AM   #1686
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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I agree that Bowie was "a step above" Prince. This is mostly subjective, but I think he had a longer and more varied career. Not sure if he had more "hits" or gold/platinum albums or whatever. But he was already a star when Prince was in junior high.
?

Your determination is based on Bowie being born 10 years earlier?

I'm not sure why this is a competition, but Prince was a prodigy musician who could play every single instrument at an expert level. He wrote his own lyrics (and the songs of many others) and his own music. The guy was fucking over-the-top talented.

I like a lot of Bowie's stuff. There is no question he was great. But Prince had more talent in his left hand than Bowie had in his entire body.

TM

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Old 04-25-2016, 12:08 PM   #1687
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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?

Your determination is based on Bowie being born 10 years earlier?

I'm not sure why this is a competition, but Prince was prodigy musician who could play every single instrument at an expert level. He wrote his own lyrics (and the songs of many others) and his own music. The guy was fucking over-the-top talented.

I like a lot of Bowie's stuff. There is no question he was great. But Prince had more talent in his left hand than Bowie had in his entire body.

TM
Like I say, it's subjective.

It's not that Bowie was born earlier. I think he broke new musical ground that shaped modern music, years before and years after Prince was doing so.

Prince was an awesomely talented musician. Bowie couldn't touch his level of instrumental talent. But so what? There are probably hundreds of musicians you've never heard of whose talent for playing instruments exceeded Bowie's and even Prince's. Talent playing an instrument isn't the same as influence on the music world as a recording artist. To use a jazz analogy (because I can), Keith Jarrett and Cecil Taylor are both far better technical pianists than Thelonius Monk was. But Monk was head and shoulders above them in his musical influence.
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Old 04-25-2016, 12:21 PM   #1688
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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?

Your determination is based on Bowie being born 10 years earlier?

I'm not sure why this is a competition, but Prince was prodigy musician who could play every single instrument at an expert level. He wrote his own lyrics (and the songs of many others) and his own music. The guy was fucking over-the-top talented.

I like a lot of Bowie's stuff. There is no question he was great. But Prince had more talent in his left hand than Bowie had in his entire body.

TM
Prince never did much for me at all. Very pop sound. Very talented, but where he went with it wasn't as interesting for me.

His writing hit me more than his performance; he had an incredible range in writing.

Bowie did hit me more.

But I'm not about to compare which was more talented in any way.What's the point of that?
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Old 04-25-2016, 12:51 PM   #1689
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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A step above how?

TM
I liked his music better and I was caught, and went along with, most of Bowie's changes. With Prince I drifted after 1999.
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Old 04-25-2016, 12:52 PM   #1690
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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Like I say, it's subjective.

It's not that Bowie was born earlier. I think he broke new musical ground that shaped modern music, years before and years after Prince was doing so.
Years after?

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Prince was an awesomely talented musician. Bowie couldn't touch his level of instrumental talent. But so what? There are probably hundreds of musicians you've never heard of whose talent for playing instruments exceeded Bowie's and even Prince's. Talent playing an instrument isn't the same as influence on the music world as a recording artist. To use a jazz analogy (because I can), Keith Jarrett and Cecil Taylor are both far better technical pianists than Thelonius Monk was. But Monk was head and shoulders above them in his musical influence.
Are we determining who was a step above based on your random decision that influence on the music world you know is the deciding factor? I was basing it on a combination of success, influence, and talent. Is Presley a step above Bowie? Is Bieber a step above John Legend?

And I'm not so sure you're right that Bowie was more influential. But I don't really care about so many artists that white people tend to lose their minds over (and not trying to make this into a black/white thing, I'm just always confused about worship of musicians I never cared that much about, like Springsteen, Dylan, Petty, Plant, Presley, Clapton, REM, etc.*). Surely you are correct and it's a subjective taste thing. And a lot of what you've determined to be influence has to do with access denied to plenty of black artists whose styles were borrowed heavily from (or stolen, depending on you ask). But Prince had more influence over the music I tend to listen to than Bowie.

Whatever. This shit is silly.

TM

As an aside, this link is funny just for #4: http://www.laweekly.com/music/the-to...e-list-2411989
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Old 04-25-2016, 01:10 PM   #1691
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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Years after?

Are we determining who was a step above based on your random decision that influence on the music world you know is the deciding factor? I was basing it on a combination of success, influence, and talent. Is Presley a step above Bowie? Is Bieber a step above John Legend?

And I'm not so sure you're right that Bowie was more influential. But I don't really care about so many artists that white people tend to lose their minds over (and not trying to make this into a black/white thing, I'm just always confused about worship of musicians I never cared that much about, like Springsteen, Dylan, Petty, Plant, Presley, Clapton, REM, etc.*). Surely you are correct and it's a subjective taste thing. And a lot of what you've determined to be influence has to do with access denied to plenty of black artists whose styles were borrowed heavily from (or stolen, depending on you ask). But Prince had more influence over the music I tend to listen to than Bowie.

Whatever. This shit is silly.

TM

As an aside, this link is funny just for #4: http://www.laweekly.com/music/the-to...e-list-2411989
Question, since I didn't listen much to his music, I got no idea who he influenced. Who are the folks in the next generation who take his stuff to a higher level?*


* Other than the contemporary orchestra I work with which has a catch-line that it performs "the music formerly known as classical".
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Old 04-25-2016, 01:21 PM   #1692
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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Question, since I didn't listen much to his music, I got no idea who he influenced. Who are the folks in the next generation who take his stuff to a higher level?
Enh. I'm not so sure there are people who try to copy (or elevate) Prince's sound, which is fairly distinctive. But I think he's influenced people's sounds from Beyoncé to Timberlake to Pharrell to Kanye to Alicia Keys to Bruno Mars to Beck to Outkast to D'Angelo to Lady Gaga to Usher to John Legend to the Roots to The Weeknd to Lenny Kravitz, to name just a few.

I also think it's important to remember that he took artists he was influenced by (including Bowie, Brown, Jagger, George Clinton, Rick James, Sly Stone, Earth Wind & Fire, Hendrix, etc.) and brought their sounds forward and often to another level.

TM

This is also somewhat amusing: http://www.clickhole.com/article/6-w...prince-go-4303

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Old 04-25-2016, 01:36 PM   #1693
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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I also think it's important to remember that he took artists he was influenced by (including Bowie, Brown, Jagger, George Clinton, Rick James, Sly Stone, Earth Wind & Fire, Hendrix, etc.) and brought their sounds forward and often to another level.
I don't know what it says, but I love all these musicians, and found Prince eh.

And please don't say it means I'm old.
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Old 04-25-2016, 01:42 PM   #1694
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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I don't know what it says, but I love all these musicians, and found Prince eh.

And please don't say it means I'm old.
And white!
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Old 04-25-2016, 02:06 PM   #1695
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Re: Music belongs on this board floer you great git!

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So it seems the wailing on FB for Prince doubles that Bowie got. Is it because the collective pain after Bowie? Like okay this is too much. Or we knew Bowie was ill but Prince's death came from nowhere?

Or was he more important? To me Bowie was a God since about 73 or so. I loved Prince (although Under The Cherry Moon might be the worst movie ever), but Bowie was a step above. Yes? No?
I don't know how to define "step above". I think the reaction you see on facebook for either artist depends on the population of your facebook feed including when they came into music and what they were drawn to afterwards. I think that Bowie's death probably set the stage for how to react to Prince's.* I looked at my itunes and saw that I had an equal number of Bowie and Prince albums, and I think for me personally both were HUGE. And I discovered both of them at a time where I had no fucking clue about anything (around pre-teen years). Let's Dance and Purple Rain came out roughly at the same time, and I was drawn to both. (Neither, of course, stood a chance to compare to Duran Duran** for me at the time, and watching them live on Saturday night, I have no regrets whatsoever about that.)

I think of the two, Prince was more straight up gifted. I have never seen anyone who saw Prince say that he wasn't the most talented balls out performer they had ever seen. I think Bowie managed his transitions better and he was a game changer many more times over than Prince. My husband and I used to say that there wasn't anyone on the planet cooler than David Bowie, and I think that we weren't the only ones in that assessment.

I never saw either live. I don't know which one I feel worse about, but I will say that when we saw this article (later denied by the Prince camp), we started talking about making a journey to see it. While I really wanted to hear Blackstar given its advance press, I don't recall making any particular plans to see Lazarus on stage.

While I guess some people knew Bowie was sick, I had no idea, and I was blindsided by his death, and it hit me hard for a few days. The sheer breadth of his work was almost impossible to absorb and remember. I actually cried when I heard. And, when a video of Bowie admonishing MTV for not showing black artists surfaced and Mark Goodman's response was that some of them were too scary, I immediately knew Prince is who everyone was talking about.

I was sitting in a conference on Thursday when my facebook feed started blowing up about Prince, and it took me a few hours to get to a place to process it. Graham and I played Prince tracks to one another for hours that night.*** I've had my car radio set to the temporary Prince station on my satellite radio since Friday.

At some point in the last few days, Graham used this clip (though it could have been any) from 18 months ago at Saturday Night Live to demonstrate a few things about Prince. First was his ability to seamlessly cross genres in the same song. Second was his unwavering commitment to bringing female musicians to the spotlight. Prince's legacy with his treatment of women is complicated, but over time it's pretty clear that he's done a ton for women in an industry that's been indifferent at best and hostile and violent at worst. And finally, it highlights his insane talent and stage presence.

I'm really sad both of them are gone. I think Bowie probably said everything he needed and wanted to say, and he left us in a perfect way. (I love Blackstar pretty deeply.) I think Prince had a shit ton more ahead of him (and a shit ton in that vault that I'm sure everyone is trying to get their hands on), and that makes his death a little harder to take.


*My sister last night, "I'm already annoyed with Madonna's death."

**Duran Duran threw part of "Space Oddity" into "Planet Earth" on Saturday night as a tribute to Bowie. They dedicated "Save a Prayer" to Prince and said that he kicked them in the ass. I got the impression that Bowie was an idol while Prince was a contemporary that elevated everyone's game. Nile Rodgers didn't really say much about Prince, but he did play "Let's Dance," which he produced.

***BTW, have fun comparing "DMSR" to "Uptown Funk". Neither of us had listened to all of 1999 since "Uptown Funk" had come out.
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