LawTalkers  

Go Back   LawTalkers > General Discussion > The Fashionable

» Site Navigation
 > FAQ
» Online Users: 297
0 members and 297 guests
No Members online
Most users ever online was 4,499, 10-26-2015 at 07:55 AM.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-11-2015, 11:28 AM   #1096
Adder
I am beyond a rank!
 
Adder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,113
Re: Just a reminder that legleaze copied the 9/11/01 Infirm posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
First let me say that I fully understand that people deal with this tremendous loss very differently. I get that people feel the need to make sure this day is remembered and that we must face it every year, read the names of the victims, honor the heroes who gave their lives helping others, and basically make sure that that moment and all those people are not forgotten and remain in our thoughts.

But I hate it. I can't stand it. I do not want to be exposed to wall-to-wall coverage of one of the worst days in our country's history. I remember it. I will never forget it. I will never forget the lives that were lost for absolutely no good reason. When I turn on any coverage and watch some of the people covering it with their forced stern faces, it makes me sick. When I feel like I can pick certain people out who are wallowing in it because they want some strange type of credibility for being the most caring or the most connected to the event, it makes me angry. When Giuliani (who lives his life based on taking advantage of this event) is held up and paraded around as some kind of hero who represents everyone in the city and is deemed the country's mayor, I see red. Everyone in this city (hell, everyone in this country) can immediately conjure up terrible images from that day and we often do, especially around this time. To blanket everything with those images really annoys me.

I went back and read a lot of those posts, Not Bob. What struck me was the caring that flowed from the people on this board. The grief and shock surely flows through each of the posts, but what really comes through, for me, is how much people cared about each other at that point. I think the coverage we're subjected to every year (including the posting of photos of the towers all over facebook and the like) is so focused on striking the right tone, not offending, holding cops and firemen above everyone, reading names, that this basic feeling--how we're all really the same and connected, and need to take care of each other--is completely lost.

Thanks for the link. It hurt to read through the posts from that day, but, in a strange way, it also felt a little comforting.

TM
Well said.
Adder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 11:31 AM   #1097
Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Moderator
 
Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pop goes the chupacabra
Posts: 18,532
Re: No Faith in the Moral Standards of the Players as a Group

Quote:
Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? View Post
That was a different time. I don't think that's going to be the case here.

The Patriots are now the Lance Armstrong of the NFL.
I think the Seahawks are the Lance Armstrong of the NFL. The Patriots are the 1951 Giants. Unless you, like Roger, want to draw an equivalence between PEDs and sign stealing.
__________________
[Dictated but not read]
Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 11:34 AM   #1098
ThurgreedMarshall
[intentionally omitted]
 
ThurgreedMarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,595
Re: I won't say a word

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) View Post
Who knows whether this guy is accurately assessing the systems in place, but how hard is it for the NFL, particularly after the several complaints made, to, you know, check the wiring? If the Pats have some switch or extra wire to do this, it should be pretty easy to find through an audit, even if the wires all run through a locked bathroom.

Or maybe allegations don't ultimately bear out.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...hes-home-games
I don't care about it. But any whiff of unfairness within a 50-mile radius of the Patriots and they might as well have paid off the other team's quarterback.

This is why your Giants example doesn't fly. The media coverage is not the same and the accusations and inferences will be driven by social media. If you don't think the Patriots' accomplishments will be viewed as tainted outside of Massachusetts, you're kidding yourself.

TM

Last edited by ThurgreedMarshall; 09-11-2015 at 11:36 AM..
ThurgreedMarshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 11:39 AM   #1099
Did you just call me Coltrane?
Registered User
 
Did you just call me Coltrane?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Throwing a kettle over a pub
Posts: 14,709
Re: No Faith in the Moral Standards of the Players as a Group

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) View Post
I think the Seahawks are the Lance Armstrong of the NFL. The Patriots are the 1951 Giants. Unless you, like Roger, want to draw an equivalence between PEDs and sign stealing.
My point is that none of your arguments/defenses really matter, even if some of them have merit. None of that will change the public's view outside of NE that the Patriots won because they cheated. I think Bonds/Clemens/McGwuire have decent arguments for being allowed into the HOF, but the public seems to have already decided that their cheating should keep them out. And that's that.

ETA: Apropos of nothing: I was mezmorized by Bonds at his PED height. Every at-bat was a much watch. He was inhuman at the plate.
__________________
No no no, that's not gonna help. That's not gonna help and I'll tell you why: It doesn't unbang your Mom.

Last edited by Did you just call me Coltrane?; 09-11-2015 at 11:47 AM..
Did you just call me Coltrane? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 11:40 AM   #1100
Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Moderator
 
Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pop goes the chupacabra
Posts: 18,532
Re: I won't say a word

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
I don't care about it. But any whiff of unfairness within a 50-mile radius of the Patriots and they might as well have paid off the other team's quarterback.

This is why your Giants example doesn't fly. The media coverage is not the same and the accusations and inferences will be driven by social media. If you don't think the Patriots' accomplishments will be viewed as tainted outside of Massachusetts, you're kidding yourself.

TM
I realize they're viewed as tainted now. The question is whether down the road that perception will persist forever. And why, if anyone thinks beyond what's hot on twitter or trending on facebook, they won't take a similar look at many other championship teams and top players and ask similar questions. Outside of Bonds and Clemens, who would otherwise be HOFers, it doesn't seem to be happening much. Dunno why.
__________________
[Dictated but not read]
Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 11:43 AM   #1101
Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Moderator
 
Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pop goes the chupacabra
Posts: 18,532
Re: No Faith in the Moral Standards of the Players as a Group

Quote:
Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? View Post
I think Bonds/Clemens/McGwuire h

I thnk the first two make it eventually. McGwire was borderline at best if his stats are untainted - yes, loads of home runs, but in the live ball/live bat/live PED era that many doesn't mean as much.
__________________
[Dictated but not read]
Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 11:48 AM   #1102
ThurgreedMarshall
[intentionally omitted]
 
ThurgreedMarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,595
Re: I won't say a word

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) View Post
I realize they're viewed as tainted now. The question is whether down the road that perception will persist forever. And why, if anyone thinks beyond what's hot on twitter or trending on facebook, they won't take a similar look at many other championship teams and top players and ask similar questions. Outside of Bonds and Clemens, who would otherwise be HOFers, it doesn't seem to be happening much. Dunno why.
I think you're right when it comes to other teams. But the passion with which people associate cheating with the Patriots is real and, like Coltrane, I don't think it's just a trend.

Brady and Belichick will make the HoF. But I think people will always associate them with cheating.

TM
ThurgreedMarshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 11:53 AM   #1103
Sidd Finch
I am beyond a rank!
 
Sidd Finch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 11,873
Re: Just a reminder that legleaze copied the 9/11/01 Infirm posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Bob View Post
They are here: http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454

I was able to look at the first few before I had to stop. Anyway, carry on.
I have read these many times. I don't think I am up to it today. Perhaps we can have breasticles instead.
__________________
Where are my elephants?!?!
Sidd Finch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 11:57 AM   #1104
Sidd Finch
I am beyond a rank!
 
Sidd Finch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 11,873
Re: Just a reminder that legleaze copied the 9/11/01 Infirm posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
I went back and read a lot of those posts, Not Bob. What struck me was the caring that flowed from the people on this board. The grief and shock surely flows through each of the posts, but what really comes through, for me, is how much people cared about each other at that point. I think the coverage we're subjected to every year (including the posting of photos of the towers all over facebook and the like) is so focused on striking the right tone, not offending, holding cops and firemen above everyone, reading names, that this basic feeling--how we're all really the same and connected, and need to take care of each other--is completely lost.

Thanks for the link. It hurt to read through the posts from that day, but, in a strange way, it also felt a little comforting.

TM
This is my favorite thing that you have ever posted (excluding photos and gifs, anyway). It was beautifully said and it reminds me of the most moving parts of that chain of posts -- the genuine concern and fear and care that this group of people, then much larger and not as well known to each other, demonstrated. And the group was only a microcosm of what we saw more broadly, nationally and beyond.

And we lost it. As some fuckers tried to capitalize on it and make it the reason for doing things they always wanted or for self-aggrandizement or anything else, we lost it. A lot of it.
__________________
Where are my elephants?!?!
Sidd Finch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 12:16 PM   #1105
Did you just call me Coltrane?
Registered User
 
Did you just call me Coltrane?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Throwing a kettle over a pub
Posts: 14,709
Re: Just a reminder that legleaze copied the 9/11/01 Infirm posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch View Post
This is my favorite thing that you have ever posted (excluding photos and gifs, anyway). It was beautifully said and it reminds me of the most moving parts of that chain of posts -- the genuine concern and fear and care that this group of people, then much larger and not as well known to each other, demonstrated. And the group was only a microcosm of what we saw more broadly, nationally and beyond.

And we lost it. As some fuckers tried to capitalize on it and make it the reason for doing things they always wanted or for self-aggrandizement or anything else, we lost it. A lot of it.
My favorite thing he ever posted was boobs.
__________________
No no no, that's not gonna help. That's not gonna help and I'll tell you why: It doesn't unbang your Mom.
Did you just call me Coltrane? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 12:28 PM   #1106
Adder
I am beyond a rank!
 
Adder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,113
Re: No Faith in the Moral Standards of the Players as a Group

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) View Post
I thnk the first two make it eventually.
They get in if the writers decide they're willing to vote for PED guys. So far, they haven't.

Which will lead to odd results when they start electing from that era that may very well have been using but were never credibly accused.

Last edited by Adder; 09-11-2015 at 03:23 PM..
Adder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 01:08 PM   #1107
Replaced_Texan
Random Syndicate (admin)
 
Replaced_Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Romantically enfranchised
Posts: 14,251
Re: Just a reminder that legleaze copied the 9/11/01 Infirm posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
First let me say that I fully understand that people deal with this tremendous loss very differently. I get that people feel the need to make sure this day is remembered and that we must face it every year, read the names of the victims, honor the heroes who gave their lives helping others, and basically make sure that that moment and all those people are not forgotten and remain in our thoughts.

But I hate it. I can't stand it. I do not want to be exposed to wall-to-wall coverage of one of the worst days in our country's history. I remember it. I will never forget it. I will never forget the lives that were lost for absolutely no good reason. When I turn on any coverage and watch some of the people covering it with their forced stern faces, it makes me sick. When I feel like I can pick certain people out who are wallowing in it because they want some strange type of credibility for being the most caring or the most connected to the event, it makes me angry. When Giuliani (who lives his life based on taking advantage of this event) is held up and paraded around as some kind of hero who represents everyone in the city and is deemed the country's mayor, I see red. Everyone in this city (hell, everyone in this country) can immediately conjure up terrible images from that day and we often do, especially around this time. To blanket everything with those images really annoys me.

I went back and read a lot of those posts, Not Bob. What struck me was the caring that flowed from the people on this board. The grief and shock surely flows through each of the posts, but what really comes through, for me, is how much people cared about each other at that point. I think the coverage we're subjected to every year (including the posting of photos of the towers all over facebook and the like) is so focused on striking the right tone, not offending, holding cops and firemen above everyone, reading names, that this basic feeling--how we're all really the same and connected, and need to take care of each other--is completely lost.

Thanks for the link. It hurt to read through the posts from that day, but, in a strange way, it also felt a little comforting.

TM
For me, that day will always be intertwined with those posts and you guys. I'm not sure I will ever be able to separate the event with this little corner of cyberspace. It gives me great comfort to see people from all over the country coming together. That is a part they never talk about anymore, and that's the part they should highlight. I'm glad we can.
__________________
"In the olden days before the internet, you'd take this sort of person for a ride out into the woods and shoot them, as Darwin intended, before he could spawn."--Will the Vampire People Leave the Lobby? pg 79
Replaced_Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 01:15 PM   #1108
Tyrone Slothrop
Moderasaurus Rex
 
Tyrone Slothrop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
Re: No Faith in the Moral Standards of the Players as a Group

Coltrane, I agree that people now think of the Patriots' accomplishments as tainted, and I think Pats fans think that is horribly unfair. E.g., here is John Madden, years ago, explaining how teams tape each others' signals. And to the extent that fans think the Patriots have been treated differently, whether it's Pats fans thinking they've been singled out or other fans thinking they have been allowed to get away with too much, that really is an indictment of the league, whose single most important function is to establish conditions for fair competition between the franchises.

Adder, I don't understand why the NFL has done what it did, but it is beyond bizarre to have the league spreading disinformation and smearing one of its marquee stars. I tend to prefer explanations based in incompetence rather than malice, as per what I said above to Coltrane.

TM, the NFL put this statement out:



But if you're a Pittsburgh fan, would you trust the league? Why should anyone trust anything the league says at this point?
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
Tyrone Slothrop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 01:20 PM   #1109
ThurgreedMarshall
[intentionally omitted]
 
ThurgreedMarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,595
Re: No Faith in the Moral Standards of the Players as a Group

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
TM, the NFL put this statement out:



But if you're a Pittsburgh fan, would you trust the league? Why should anyone trust anything the league says at this point?
Agreed. I think the article covered that statement. In any case, the NFL should be responsible for absolutely everything that relates to fair play. The home team should have nothing to do with communications.

TM

Last edited by ThurgreedMarshall; 09-11-2015 at 01:26 PM..
ThurgreedMarshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 01:22 PM   #1110
ThurgreedMarshall
[intentionally omitted]
 
ThurgreedMarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,595
Re: Just a reminder that legleaze copied the 9/11/01 Infirm posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch View Post
And we lost it. As some fuckers tried to capitalize on it and make it the reason for doing things they always wanted or for self-aggrandizement or anything else, we lost it. A lot of it.
Then there's Trump who apparently tweeted the following two years ago:

"I would like to extend my best wishes to all, even the haters and losers, on this special date, September 11th."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/11/politi...045astoryphoto

TM
ThurgreedMarshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.0.1

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:38 AM.