Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

I think espionage is a crime, but regardless of whether he was obstructing justice only to avoid embarrassment and not his own personal criminal behavior, I'd be surprised if obstruction is the only thing Mueller finds. There will certainly be dirty money dealings. The question is whether they will have happened after he was a candidate or even in office.

I'm prepared to learn from the GOP how money laundering before being sworn in isn't impeachable, though.

I think we'll find some massive illegal tax strategy and offshore accounts.

I'm not sure on laundering because, while contracting is one of the best laundering devices, recall -- Donald doesn't build anything anymore. He licenses his name to other people's construction. That hotel in DC he claims he "built" was just s rehab, I believe. That's about the most he does in terms of going vertical.

[Hank Chinaski]

The dad who rushed Nassar at sentencing was my best friend from college. We have drifted, and I had no idea this had impacted his girls.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

I will drink you until I'm blind.

I think I did just that last night.

One martini is all right. Two are too many, and three are not enough.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

I think I did just that last night.

One martini is all right. Two are too many, and three are not enough.

translation: "what the? A cue card from the Bob Hope special. How did that get in here?"

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

The dad who rushed Nassar at sentencing was my best friend from college. We have drifted, and had no idea this had impacted his girls.

I hope someone exercises some prosecutorial discretion and lets that event slide. It's not like Nassar couldn't stand a bit of tuning up.

I feel for him and his daughters.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Your spin. I accuse both the Right and the Left of using a meat cleaver where a scalpel is warranted.

Come on, dude. Your complaints about the left more often revolve around the level of wonky policy focus the left has - it's a complaint we're using a scalpel when a meat cleaver would do.

You did see, I trust, that Trump is taking administrative action to limit the enforcement of several provisions of Dodd Frank? Mostly focused on the anti-discrimination provisions and benching prosecutors chasing discriminatory lending practices. Your thoughts?

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Because Little John told me, and he always tells the truth.

"Little John"? Seriously, dude, you need to stop hanging out at suburban PA cocktails parties with Trump supporters.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

translation: "what the? A cue card from the Bob Hope special. How did that get in here?"

Can someone translate this translation?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

Can someone translate this translation?

It was a David Letterman joke he told after telling a corny old joke- something bob Hope might have told-

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

This place is Left. That cannot be argued.

I'm not trolling. I sincerely believe we should assess all things in a manner where one credits the useful and decries the bad. My party versus yours, my identity versus yours... These aren't useful. Looking at things with a purely relativist and subjective eye, identifying with nothing but what you think are good policies, and resisting only what's bad -- this is a much more productive way to approach everything.

I really have to ask this. I'll try to do it without losing my shit, so bear with me (or don't, whatever).

Have you ever stopped for a second and thought that the people on this board think about each and every policy issue and have come to a conclusion about where they stand on the merits of the policy? Has it occurred to you that no one on this board supports Democratic policies that they disagree with just because they're Democratic in origin? Has it occurred to you that we actually disagree with policies Republicans consistently favor because we think they are incorrect--not because they are Republican ideas, but because they do not work?

Your tax example is a good one. You think there is some good in it. I disagree because it robs us of revenue we need to maintain safety nets, rebuild infrastructure, fund disaster relief, etc. The short term benefits are crumbs in the hands of middle class people and huge 4 tiered cakes for the rich. So, no. I don't agree that there are beneficial aspects to the tax bill. And I think there's going to have to be a Wisconsin-style reckoning at some point to deal with how we are currently underfunding the government.

Aside from that, I do not agree with the Republican/conservative philosophy of governing. That doesn't mean I am a blind follower and agree with everything Democrats want to do or have done. But if you can articulate a Republican policy position on anything that I agree with, I will be surprised. And that's because of the substance of those policies.

You are not some sage, above-it-all, disinterested, neutral party who has the ability to see how blind everyone else is. You're just a guy who agrees with Republicans on their approach to policy sometimes and agree with Democrats on others. You are no more thoughtful than anyone else on this board. In fact, your tendency to overlook the many very thoughtful posts which actually analyze Republican (and Democratic) positions as some automatic, unthinking, tribal response is small-minded and offensive.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

The dad who rushed Nassar at sentencing was my best friend from college. We have drifted, and I had no idea this had impacted his girls.

Wow. That's crazy.

Not sure they needed 3 cops to subdue him. It looked more like an emotional gesture than anything else. It always seems like cops spend their lives waiting for moments like these so they can stick their knees in people's backs and tell them to stay down.

TM

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I really have to ask this. I'll try to do it without losing my shit, so bear with me (or don't, whatever).

Have you ever stopped for a second and thought that the people on this board think about each and every policy issue and have come to a conclusion about where they stand on the merits of the policy? Has it occurred to you that no one on this board supports Democratic policies that they disagree with just because they're Democratic in origin? Has it occurred to you that we actually disagree with policies Republicans consistently favor because we think they are incorrect--not because they are Republican ideas, but because they do not work?

Your tax example is a good one. You think there is some good in it. I disagree because it robs us of revenue we need to maintain safety nets, rebuild infrastructure, fund disaster relief, etc. The short term benefits are crumbs in the hands of middle class people and huge 4 tiered cakes for the rich. So, no. I don't agree that there are beneficial aspects to the tax bill. And I think there's going to have to be a Wisconsin-style reckoning at some point to deal with how we are currently underfunding the government.

Aside from that, I do not agree with the Republican/conservative philosophy of governing. That doesn't mean I am a blind follower and agree with everything Democrats want to do or have done. But if you can articulate a Republican policy position on anything that I agree with, I will be surprised. And that's because of the substance of those policies.

You are not some sage, above-it-all, disinterested, neutral party who has the ability to see how blind everyone else is. You're just a guy who agrees with Republicans on their approach to policy sometimes and agree with Democrats on others. You are no more thoughtful than anyone else on this board. In fact, your tendency to overlook the many very thoughtful posts which actually analyze Republican (and Democratic) positions as some automatic, unthinking, tribal response is small-minded and offensive.

TM

That was written with a remarkable degree of restraint. You're still a jack-booted bully, but apparently one capable of exercising remarkable restraint.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

That was written with a remarkable degree of restraint. You're still a jack-booted bully, but apparently one capable of exercising remarkable restraint.

TM

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I really have to ask this. I'll try to do it without losing my shit, so bear with me (or don't, whatever).

Have you ever stopped for a second and thought that the people on this board think about each and every policy issue and have come to a conclusion about where they stand on the merits of the policy? Has it occurred to you that no one on this board supports Democratic policies that they disagree with just because they're Democratic in origin? Has it occurred to you that we actually disagree with policies Republicans consistently favor because we think they are incorrect--not because they are Republican ideas, but because they do not work?

Your tax example is a good one. You think there is some good in it. I disagree because it robs us of revenue we need to maintain safety nets, rebuild infrastructure, fund disaster relief, etc. The short term benefits are crumbs in the hands of middle class people and huge 4 tiered cakes for the rich. So, no. I don't agree that there are beneficial aspects to the tax bill. And I think there's going to have to be a Wisconsin-style reckoning at some point to deal with how we are currently underfunding the government.

Aside from that, I do not agree with the Republican/conservative philosophy of governing. That doesn't mean I am a blind follower and agree with everything Democrats want to do or have done. But if you can articulate a Republican policy position on anything that I agree with, I will be surprised. And that's because of the substance of those policies.

You are not some sage, above-it-all, disinterested, neutral party who has the ability to see how blind everyone else is. You're just a guy who agrees with Republicans on their approach to policy sometimes and agree with Democrats on others. You are no more thoughtful than anyone else on this board. In fact, your tendency to overlook the many very thoughtful posts which actually analyze Republican (and Democratic) positions as some automatic, unthinking, tribal response is small-minded and offensive.

TM

It's easy for me to identify an policy position I cross the aisle on, which is trade. I'm all for TPP, which passed with more Republican votes than Democratic, and I think the labor movement's focus on protectionism rather than internationalism (and cultivating unions abroad as part of trade deals especially) is completely screwed up. This is a regular debate in my family.

There have been other issues - Romneycare is a good example at a state level - where I've strongly backed bipartisan initiatives. When Bush was around I more than once expressed the view that he was someone to work with on immigration issues.

BUT , the tax bill is one of the most fucked-up, unprofessional, poorly thought out, half-assed, ideologically motivated pieces of legislation ever voted on, let alone passed, by Congress. Sure, there will be some stimulus resulting from dropping $1.5 trillion into the economy (which will come out of federal borrowing), but there were 20 ways to make that have a greater impact (just cutting a check for $5,000 per person and sending it to everyone in the country, man woman or child, would have had more stimulus by far) and that debt will be a long-term drag. Plus, the regionalism of it is deeply disturbing - the idea of trying to spur dead or dying industries with tax incentives while hamstringing expanding ones isn't Republican or Democratic, it's Moronic. A good part of the problem stems from the fact that no thought went into the bill from Congress - it's a cut and paste of K street proposals, not a bill crafted through a process of hearing and discussion. There was more discussion of it on this board than in Congress. No tax bill has ever been passed without a hearing process.

There are intelligent Republican tax bills that could have been proposed. If Sebby thinks that piece of shit has anything to say for itself, he's got ideological blinders WAYYYY worse than anyone else posting here.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

It's easy for me to identify an policy position I cross the aisle on, which is trade. I'm all for TPP, which passed with more Republican votes than Democratic, and I think the labor movement's focus on protectionism rather than internationalism (and cultivating unions abroad as part of trade deals especially) is completely screwed up. This is a regular debate in my family.

Agree. And abandoning these types of trade agreements in favor of isolationism (because, let's be honest, people are just against them no matter what they say) just allows other countries to swoop in and fill the void we are leaving.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

BUT , the tax bill is one of the most fucked-up, unprofessional, poorly thought out, half-assed, ideologically motivated pieces of legislation ever voted on, let alone passed, by Congress. Sure, there will be some stimulus resulting from dropping $1.5 trillion into the economy (which will come out of federal borrowing), but there were 20 ways to make that have a greater impact (just cutting a check for $5,000 per person and sending it to everyone in the country, man woman or child, would have had more stimulus by far) and that debt will be a long-term drag. Plus, the regionalism of it is deeply disturbing - the idea of trying to spur dead or dying industries with tax incentives while hamstringing expanding ones isn't Republican or Democratic, it's Moronic. A good part of the problem stems from the fact that no thought went into the bill from Congress - it's a cut and paste of K street proposals, not a bill crafted through a process of hearing and discussion. There was more discussion of it on this board than in Congress. No tax bill has ever been passed without a hearing process.

Ugh. Another superficial, knee-jerk, tribal response. I wish you put some thought into this issue.

TM