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02-15-2018, 03:18 PM
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#4636
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
The idea here is to let an individual have an "opportunity" to have a captive laborer, someone whose visa depends on their work relationship, who will owe costs if terminated by their employer, whose living space is controlled by the employer, and who is exempt from the most basic worker protection, minimum wage. This is all about creating an institutional framework for exploitation.
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I don't think that's what the authors say:
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While the program might seem crazy at first, it would not be that different from the existing H1-B program, except that individuals like Mary rather than corporations like Google and Exxon would sponsor the workers. Second, the program is not that different from the au pair program run by the State Department, nominally under the J-1 cultural exchange visa program, but in reality a nanny migrant-labor program used by upper-middle class American families.
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What if we just extend H1-B visas to the sorts of parties he's talking about?
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The au pair program is a one year sojourn. There is exploitation in the program - we used it for several years and saw some horrid things happne among some of our au pairs' friends (including one family who very strictly limited their au pair's food, for example, and more than one case where there was sexual harassment). The program needs reform, not expansion, but is also a very temporary status.
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OK.
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的t was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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02-15-2018, 04:03 PM
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#4637
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Washington
Posts: 228
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
Thurgreed:
I wrote a lengthy reply to your thoughtful post at 8:00 a.m. I gather a glitch sent it in to the ether. I'll reply when I have an opportunity.
In the meantime, should Elizabeth Warren, of the High Cheekbones, offer to show the results of a "23 and me" DNA test if Commander in Chief Bone Spurs releases his tax returns? On the issue of whether one or both will show issues contrary to their proponents, I'll take the "over". And how long will the IRS take to finish its audit of the Trump Clan?
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02-15-2018, 04:13 PM
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#4638
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[intentionally omitted]
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,595
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller
In the meantime, should Elizabeth Warren, of the High Cheekbones, offer to show the results of a "23 and me" DNA test if Commander in Chief Bone Spurs releases his tax returns? On the issue of whether one or both will show issues contrary to their proponents, I'll take the "over". And how long will the IRS take to finish its audit of the Trump Clan?
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Did I miss something? Is this deal on offer? If not, I'm confused about why you linked these two things together.
TM
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02-15-2018, 04:17 PM
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#4639
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller
Thurgreed:
I wrote a lengthy reply to your thoughtful post at 8:00 a.m. I gather a glitch sent it in to the ether. I'll reply when I have an opportunity.
In the meantime, should Elizabeth Warren, of the High Cheekbones, offer to show the results of a "23 and me" DNA test if Commander in Chief Bone Spurs releases his tax returns? On the issue of whether one or both will show issues contrary to their proponents, I'll take the "over". And how long will the IRS take to finish its audit of the Trump Clan?
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If Warren took a DNA test and it showed that she had Indian blood, I don't think it change a thing. Trump would keep calling her Pocahontas, and would pretend that it was about her exploiting that status for affirmative action gain. It's about belittling her as not having earned what she has accomplished and as a phony.
My father grew up with a similar sort of family history, except that it was more of untalked-about baggage than something discussed. He did a DNA test recently and it showed that he is about a quarter black and Native American (more the latter). After many, many hours with Ancestry.com and the like, he's still not sure who was passing, let alone whether they were ever registered with which tribe. IMO, it makes him authentically American. I really liked Warren's speech, from what I read of it.
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的t was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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02-15-2018, 04:46 PM
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#4640
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I am beyond a rank!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: A pool of my own vomit
Posts: 732
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
Sebby, the cover story of The Weekly Standard was an examination of Universal Basic Income, and bonus points for you!! also discusses technology and machines supplanting humans.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-ca...rticle/2011427
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02-15-2018, 04:57 PM
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#4641
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
__________________
的t was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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02-15-2018, 05:28 PM
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#4642
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What if we just extend H1-B visas to the sorts of parties he's talking about?
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There's nothing excluding any employer from applying. But the people covered under H1B have to be college grads with special expertise and not impact US hiring (e.g., some showing of a shortage). There's no exception from minimum wage, no provision of housing in lieu of wage, which appears to be what they're talking about (and why this person is living in the Basement - where's atticus to discuss zoning implications), and I don't know, does W.Va. have a shortage of dog walkers?
Those who use H1Bs among my clients generally use them to spur growth - the H1Bs are creative technologists coming up with the IP on which business that hire a lot of people are built. Their program isn't about bright foreigners helping hire Americans, it's about Americans getting to exploit the visa slaves for cheap labor.
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A wee dram a day!
Last edited by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy; 02-15-2018 at 05:31 PM..
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02-15-2018, 05:32 PM
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#4643
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Steaming Hot
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Giving a three hour blowjob
Posts: 8,220
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
IMO, it makes him authentically American.
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According to my test, I'm a Neanderthal outlier! (more Neanderthal variants than 95% of the tested population). So authentically Cavewoman, for whatever that will get me.
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02-15-2018, 05:33 PM
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#4644
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
There's nothing excluding any employer from applying. But the people covered under H1B have to be college grads with special expertise and not impact US hiring (e.g., some showing of a shortage). There's no exception from minimum wage, no provision of housing in lieu of wage, which appears to be what they're talking about (and why this person is living in the Basement - where's atticus to discuss zoning implications), and I don't know, does W.Va. have a shortage of dog walkers?
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I think the authors are fundamentally correct that most Americans do not perceive that they benefit from immigration. Their impulse is to try to broaden the range of employers who can hire immigrants, to give more people a stake in immigration. That seems like a good idea to me. One can quibble about the details, and one can certainly imagine ways in which the system could be gamed or immigrants exploited, but we agree that those would be bad results. Maybe where we differ is that I see the authors proposing win-win solutions, not exploitation, and you don't (though I'm not sure why).
__________________
的t was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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02-15-2018, 05:35 PM
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#4645
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 32,939
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FB x-post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhitenorthchick
According to my test, I'm a Neanderthal outlier! (more Neanderthal variants than 95% of the tested population). So authentically Cavewoman, for whatever that will get me.
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This kind of look?
__________________
的t was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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02-15-2018, 07:32 PM
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#4646
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Proud Holder-Post 200,000
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Corner Office
Posts: 86,041
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhitenorthchick
According to my test, I'm a Neanderthal outlier! (more Neanderthal variants than 95% of the tested population). So authentically Cavewoman, for whatever that will get me.
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My sister and I are both going to do the 23 and Me tests to see if we come out the same. We should, if accurate, but N.B., full disclosure, IIRC, at least Penske, Atticus and Thurgreed claimed to have had sex with my mother, so the results might be inconclusive ?
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I will not suffer a fool- but I do seem to read a lot of their posts
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02-15-2018, 10:32 PM
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#4647
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Random Syndicate (admin)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Romantically enfranchised
Posts: 14,251
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan
I have no idea what happened. I'll look to getting in touch with the host. It looks like the clock is off.
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Still unclear. At any rate, I asked the host to update us to the latest version of the license we have. They said they'd do it during down time. I'm not quite sure when that is, but be prepared (especially in the middle of the night) for the board to go down for an hour or so.
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"In the olden days before the internet, you'd take this sort of person for a ride out into the woods and shoot them, as Darwin intended, before he could spawn."--Will the Vampire People Leave the Lobby? pg 79
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02-15-2018, 11:45 PM
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#4648
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,077
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEC_Chick
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It's inevitable. But I think they might hasten it a bit if they select better cheerleaders than Charles Murray.
Still, I'll take whatever attention the idea can acquire. It's the only sane solution until:
1. We become the happy, decadent leisure class Keynes' envisioned; or,
2. Those oodles of new jobs that are created by all new technologies, accordingly to economic theory written in 1369, followed blindly since by all autistic sorts in the Dismal Science, come to fruition (this being somewhere, I estimate, around 2150).
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
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02-16-2018, 09:51 AM
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#4649
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Random Syndicate (admin)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Romantically enfranchised
Posts: 14,251
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
Ok, the forum has been updated. Let me know if there are any problems and I'll see what I can do.
__________________
"In the olden days before the internet, you'd take this sort of person for a ride out into the woods and shoot them, as Darwin intended, before he could spawn."--Will the Vampire People Leave the Lobby? pg 79
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02-16-2018, 12:05 PM
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#4650
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I am beyond a rank!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,113
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
It's inevitable. But I think they might hasten it a bit if they select better cheerleaders than Charles Murray.
Still, I'll take whatever attention the idea can acquire. It's the only sane solution until:
1. We become the happy, decadent leisure class Keynes' envisioned; or,
2. Those oodles of new jobs that are created by all new technologies, accordingly to economic theory written in 1369, followed blindly since by all autistic sorts in the Dismal Science, come to fruition (this being somewhere, I estimate, around 2150).
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It's okay, bud, I'm still mad at the loom too. Don't even get me started on buggy whips.
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