Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

We're both lawyers, as opposed to Senators gobbling up any possible political cover they can to acquit. Schiff's a liability in this regard. He should be removed from the team.

You're buying the bullshit.

The Republicans love to personally attack every democrat, and it is all projection. The only reason Schiff is under attack now is because all the bullshit projected at Pelosi has failed to get traction.

As always, turn off the Fox, they made you a moron

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I'm not attacking your messenger. I'm attacking Schiff's decision not to get ahead of the attacks on your messenger.

"But fuck that attacking the messenger stuff" you said, obliviously, as you posted about outing the whistleblower.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

The report is filled with facts supporting the allegation.

No. It really isn't. You can tell, because the reporter has no personal knowledge that the person he has named is the whistleblower. You could have run the same report calling Fred Fielding Deep Throat, but he wasn't.

It's odd to me that you have such strong instincts to side with criminal defendants, a sense of the unfairnesss that's possible when the state machinery is used to prosecute someone, but you have no similar sense of siding with the little guy when the state uses its resources to smear someone. Whether or not he is the whistleblower, that guy does not deserve to become the target of right-wing media, and it's going to fuck with his life.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

You're buying the bullshit.

The Republicans love to personally attack every democrat, and it is all projection. The only reason Schiff is under attack now is because all the bullshit projected at Pelosi has failed to get traction.

As always, turn off the Fox, they made you a moron

In fairness, they are attacking him because Trump is attacking him, because Trump feels threatened by him.

Every complaint I've heard about Schiff has been bullshit. Maybe there's a good one out there I've missed. It's just an effort to delegitimize someone who threatens the President.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

You're buying the bullshit.

The Republicans love to personally attack every democrat, and it is all projection. The only reason Schiff is under attack now is because all the bullshit projected at Pelosi has failed to get traction.

As always, turn off the Fox, they made you a moron

I've been on cable news. I've never watched cable news.

You miss my point. Schiff has become, by his own efforts, a target. When you want to find a counter-villain, or simply focus ire, it's best to have a target. If this impeachment inquiry were conducted by committee and there were no face emerging as the leader or organizer of it, Trump would have no option but to fight the substance.

Instead, he's been gifted the ability to focus on Schiff. Hell, Schiff has been on talk shows for years now - at least twice on Bill Maher as I can recall - talking about how he's going to get Trump. Ya think it might be a better idea to have someone else running point on this investigation in the moment? If you're prosecuting a case, the last thing you want is a polarizing prosecutor.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

In fairness, they are attacking him because Trump is attacking him, because Trump feels threatened by him.

Every complaint I've heard about Schiff has been bullshit. Maybe there's a good one out there I've missed. It's just an effort to delegitimize someone who threatens the President.

Whether it is or it isn't bullshit is immaterial. This is not about facts. This is a game. If I'm playing this game, and my aim is to take out Trump, I want to make this about the substance of the call, not the prosecutor. The best way to do that is to have multiple Democrats speak about the investigation - spread the responsibility around, in a sort of "decision by committee" manner that obscures responsibility and individual actions. This blunts any attempt by Trump to create a referendum on Schiff.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

In fairness, they are attacking him because Trump is attacking him, because Trump feels threatened by him.

Every complaint I've heard about Schiff has been bullshit. Maybe there's a good one out there I've missed. It's just an effort to delegitimize someone who threatens the President.

It is amazing how quickly all the flunkies take their cues from the boss. It's like they don't even need to think about it first.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

"But fuck that attacking the messenger stuff" you said, obliviously, as you posted about outing the whistleblower.

Where did I attack him? I said, strategically, now that he's outed (he is... Rand Paul all but said his name at a rally in KY yesterday, and numerous Rs have been using his last name in various public forums), defend him. Otherwise, you look like you're hiding something. He becomes the defendant who's not in the room, the empty chair for Republicans to bash.

The better way to have done this would be:

1. Not have Schiff's hands all over the WB in advance;
2. Not have Schiff anywhere near this thing;
3. Have some milquetoast Congressman with no history for Rs to attack run point instead;
4. Get a WB without direct ties to Brennan and Biden (it's all hearsay anyway, so why not get a WB that can't be painted as biased?);
5. Do the depositions in public, so you can get the Perry Mason moments that can be packaged into short video clips and circulated broadly (See: Kavanaugh).

The Rs are blundering here. The defense that Trump has a duty to root out corruption and Biden just happened to be suspected to be corrupt is one of the dumbest I've heard. But the Ds haven't exactly plotted this out too well. This could have been executed much more cleanly.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I've been on cable news. I've never watched cable news.

You miss my point. Schiff has become, by his own efforts, a target. When you want to find a counter-villain, or simply focus ire, it's best to have a target. If this impeachment inquiry were conducted by committee and there were no face emerging as the leader or organizer of it, Trump would have no option but to fight the substance.

Instead, he's been gifted the ability to focus on Schiff. Hell, Schiff has been on talk shows for years now - at least twice on Bill Maher as I can recall - talking about how he's going to get Trump. Ya think it might be a better idea to have someone else running point on this investigation in the moment? If you're prosecuting a case, the last thing you want is a polarizing prosecutor.

That's brilliant, Sebby. Since Republicans attack any Democratic leaders, Democratics should get rid of leaders and run Congress and their party as an autonomous collective.

My favorite part of your post is the suggestion that Schiff has become a GOP target "by his own efforts." Damn straight! If he didn't want to be delegitimized, why did he get so much seniority in Congress?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

No. It really isn't. You can tell, because the reporter has no personal knowledge that the person he has named is the whistleblower. You could have run the same report calling Fred Fielding Deep Throat, but he wasn't.

It's odd to me that you have such strong instincts to side with criminal defendants, a sense of the unfairnesss that's possible when the state machinery is used to prosecute someone, but you have no similar sense of siding with the little guy when the state uses its resources to smear someone. Whether or not he is the whistleblower, that guy does not deserve to become the target of right-wing media, and it's going to fuck with his life.

Could be wrong, but round the beltway, that name is the WB.

The state isn't doing anything to this guy. Trump and his political party are doing it. It is unfair. But it's also unavoidable. There was no way in hell that once Schiff decided to use this complaint to seek impeachment, this poor guy's name wasn't coming out.

What I'd like to know is when Schiff and the WB first connected. If the WB did this out of a sense of duty and Schiff later ran with it, that's one thing. If Schiff was in any way involved in drafting the WB's complaint, we're in more of a caveat emptor, or "buy the ticket, take the ride" situation.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Where did I attack him? I said, strategically, now that he's outed (he is... Rand Paul all but said his name at a rally in KY yesterday, and numerous Rs have been using his last name in various public forums), defend him. Otherwise, you look like you're hiding something. He becomes the defendant who's not in the room, the empty chair for Republicans to bash.

The better way to have done this would be:

1. Not have Schiff's hands all over the WB in advance;
2. Not have Schiff anywhere near this thing;
3. Have some milquetoast Congressman with no history for Rs to attack run point instead;
4. Get a WB without direct ties to Brennan and Biden (it's all hearsay anyway, so why not get a WB that can't be painted as biased?);
5. Do the depositions in public, so you can get the Perry Mason moments that can be packaged into short video clips and circulated broadly (See: Kavanaugh).

The Rs are blundering here. The defense that Trump has a duty to root out corruption and Biden just happened to be suspected to be corrupt is one of the dumbest I've heard. But the Ds haven't exactly plotted this out too well. This could have been executed much more cleanly.

Sebby, you said "fuck that attacking the messenger shit" because I pointed out that you were credulously treating a conservative op-ed writer as if he were a neutral journalist. Try some self-awareness.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

That's brilliant, Sebby. Since Republicans attack any Democratic leaders, Democratics should get rid of leaders and run Congress and their party as an autonomous collective.

My favorite part of your post is the suggestion that Schiff has become a GOP target "by his own efforts." Damn straight! If he didn't want to be delegitimized, why did he get so much seniority in Congress?

Schiff is ambitious. He could lead this without going on TV every four hours. He's made himself Trump's Javert. As I said, caveat emptor. He reaps the rewards that come with that fame, but it also makes him a target. Impossible to have it both ways.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Sebby, you said "fuck that attacking the messenger shit" because I pointed out that you were credulously treating a conservative op-ed writer as if he were a neutral journalist. Try some self-awareness.

Right. And I'll say it again: He's right.

So as the Ds are saying to the Rs right now, let's focus on the substance, not the speaker.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

That's brilliant, Sebby. Since Republicans attack any Democratic leaders, Democratics should get rid of leaders and run Congress and their party as an autonomous

collective.

My favorite part of your post is the suggestion that Schiff has become a GOP target "by his own efforts." Damn straight! If he didn't want to be delegitimized, why did he get so much seniority in Congress?

The thing is, the Dems leading this process tend to be articulate, knowledgeable, and experienced, a total contrast to the white house. It's part of why Dems are rocking it among the college educated. You put up Schiff against Gym Jordan on the news, Jordan looks like an imbecile every time to any person who is listening instead of cheering on each grunted slur.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Could be wrong, but round the beltway, that name is the WB.

The state isn't doing anything to this guy. Trump and his political party are doing it. It is unfair. But it's also unavoidable. There was no way in hell that once Schiff decided to use this complaint to seek impeachment, this poor guy's name wasn't coming out.

The state *is* doing something to this guy. Those are government officials in the White House who are leaking his name to your Sperry guy, and they are doing it sitting in government officers on government furniture and on the government's dime. You are right that Sperry is not on the government payroll. It's just not clear to me why that should matter, if you have any sympathy for the guy who is the target of those efforts. Which you don't.

And "once Schiff decided to use this complaint to seek impeachment"? As if that were Schiff's decision to make. For one, he's not the chair of the Judiciary Committee. But you have your narrative, and facts don't matter to it, as you've explained. It's the White House's world -- you just live in it.